Thatcher dead?

[Woodsey]

One thing about the mines is that they were uncompetitive their demise was Inevitable, Maggie or not it would have happened, it just so happened it came about during her tenure and she copped all the flack for what would have happened at some point anyway.

If they were profitable businesses that could stand on their own 2 feet there would be no reason to close. The pits were unviable pure and simple nothing to do with Maggie. If they were viable it would have been in her interest for them to remain.

You can't expect the government and hence normal people's taxes to subsidise other people's jobs. I understand why people get upset about this and blame Maggie, I really do, but those are the facts.

[DMorgan]

Thread makes me wonder what the response would be if we could poll all of the people that worked in the mines and the factories. Looking at their children and grandchildren, their standard of living and the kind of work that they do to make their living, was it all worth it?

[the sicilian]

Looking at the photos in the newspapers of all the celebrations and parties held over Maggies death, it does appear that the vast majority of them are pretty young who weren't even born when Maggie was around.

Looks more like jumping on the bandwagon socialist loonies, the same ones that smashed their way around London when the school fees demos were happening. The rent a mob, classy members of our society.

On top of that throw in a few old miners who are still pissed off 30 years later.

Most of those don't know what socialism means or what it is, its just a label used by you and the mail to brand people who just need an excuse to kickoff. It's not even worth mentioning, what 300 people in the country made a twat of themselves? I bet the press were camped out waiting for them.

Ok I'll just label them low life tossers them for celebrating the death of a 87 year old lady. We both know what side of the political spectrum they are on though.

As opposed to high life tossers who's greed and me me me attitude leave them incapable of sympathy for those not as lucky/fortunate as them?

I'm glad she's dead - I do regret the death of an 87 year old lady though - it should have been when she was a lot younger. I've as much remorse over that as she had for her victims.

You've shown a lot of class there rod.

As have those of her supporters who have shown no compassion or humanity towards her victims on here either. I've seen my Grandad die from silicosis, so he never made it to be one of the 'old miners' happy she's gone. I'm not going to be a hypocrite about it, I've always hated her, for what she did & her lack of humanity/compasion/remorse in doing it, I'll save regrets for those who deserve it. As for my class, or lack thereof, you can judge how you like it matter not a fuck to me.

I don't mean to cause any offence or be impertinent..but your grandad died of a disease caused by working in a mine and you hate maggie thatcher for closing said mine?

Of course not. I hate her for killing what he worked for.

Thats fair enough... and tbh i will never be able to understand the side of yourself and the communities in the front line as although it was my time I was not affected to such a degree.. if i were perhaps i would have the same feelings... as an offshoot..diseases caused by mining are they just an acknowledged side effect of the job or poor safety?

[doubleup]

You can't expect the government and hence normal people's taxes to subsidise other people's jobs. I understand why people get upset about this and blame Maggie, I really do, but those are the facts.

wikipedia

Closures in all coalfields began in the 1980s as demand for British coal was weakened by large subsidies that other European governments gave to their coal industries (West Germany subsidised coal by four times as much and France by three times as much in 1984) and the availability of lower cost, often open-cast, coal mined in Australia, Colombia, Poland and the United States.

[Woodsey]

You can't expect the government and hence normal people's taxes to subsidise other people's jobs. I understand why people get upset about this and blame Maggie, I really do, but those are the facts.

wikipedia

Closures in all coalfields began in the 1980s as demand for British coal was weakened by large subsidies that other European governments gave to their coal industries (West Germany subsidised coal by four times as much and France by three times as much in 1984) and the availability of lower cost, often open-cast, coal mined in Australia, Colombia, Poland and the United States.

Doesn't mean we should have done the same.

[Rod Paradise]

Looking at the photos in the newspapers of all the celebrations and parties held over Maggies death, it does appear that the vast majority of them are pretty young who weren't even born when Maggie was around.

Looks more like jumping on the bandwagon socialist loonies, the same ones that smashed their way around London when the school fees demos were happening. The rent a mob, classy members of our society.

On top of that throw in a few old miners who are still pissed off 30 years later.

Most of those don't know what socialism means or what it is, its just a label used by you and the mail to brand people who just need an excuse to kickoff. It's not even worth mentioning, what 300 people in the country made a twat of themselves? I bet the press were camped out waiting for them.

Ok I'll just label them low life tossers them for celebrating the death of a 87 year old lady. We both know what side of the political spectrum they are on though.

As opposed to high life tossers who's greed and me me me attitude leave them incapable of sympathy for those not as lucky/fortunate as them?

I'm glad she's dead - I do regret the death of an 87 year old lady though - it should have been when she was a lot younger. I've as much remorse over that as she had for her victims.

You've shown a lot of class there rod.

As have those of her supporters who have shown no compassion or humanity towards her victims on here either. I've seen my Grandad die from silicosis, so he never made it to be one of the 'old miners' happy she's gone. I'm not going to be a hypocrite about it, I've always hated her, for what she did & her lack of humanity/compasion/remorse in doing it, I'll save regrets for those who deserve it. As for my class, or lack thereof, you can judge how you like it matter not a fuck to me.

I don't mean to cause any offence or be impertinent..but your grandad died of a disease caused by working in a mine and you hate maggie thatcher for closing said mine?

Of course not. I hate her for killing what he worked for.

Thats fair enough... and tbh i will never be able to understand the side of yourself and the communities in the front line as although it was my time I was not affected to such a degree.. if i were perhaps i would have the same feelings... as an offshoot..diseases caused by mining are they just an acknowledged side effect of the job or poor safety?

Not being able to understand is fine, not willing to consider it is what's infuriating  

At the time remember they hadn't even banned working with asbestos. Later miners had to wear breating apparatus & dust masks - my Grandad was a shot firer, so was closest to the explosions and the resulting dust. On one occaission too close and he had a permanent coal dust tattoo one one side of his arse from being just too slow behind the protective wall.... Although there must have been some idea of the damage it could do & there allegedly was a pressure on doctors to avoid mentioning silicosis (which was a lung disease caused by coal dust) on death certificates. My grandad died cause he couldn't breathe by the end - but there was no mention of silicosis on his death certificate. Subsequent governments (Labour & Conservative) kept fighting the link in the courts & delaying paying any compensation, until eventually paying out a pittance to the few surviving widows, and not having to pay out to those widows who'd died in the meantime, my Gran got a couple of hundred quid eventually.

[doubleup]

You can't expect the government and hence normal people's taxes to subsidise other people's jobs. I understand why people get upset about this and blame Maggie, I really do, but those are the facts.

wikipedia

Closures in all coalfields began in the 1980s as demand for British coal was weakened by large subsidies that other European governments gave to their coal industries (West Germany subsidised coal by four times as much and France by three times as much in 1984) and the availability of lower cost, often open-cast, coal mined in Australia, Colombia, Poland and the United States.

Doesn't mean we should have done the same.

Thats exactly the Thatcher love/hate in a nutshell.  Subsidising coal production acceptable in major economic competitors but unacceptable in Thatcher's Britain leading to rapid destruction of mining communities.  

[Jon MW]

You can't expect the government and hence normal people's taxes to subsidise other people's jobs. I understand why people get upset about this and blame Maggie, I really do, but those are the facts.

wikipedia

Closures in all coalfields began in the 1980s as demand for British coal was weakened by large subsidies that other European governments gave to their coal industries (West Germany subsidised coal by four times as much and France by three times as much in 1984) and the availability of lower cost, often open-cast, coal mined in Australia, Colombia, Poland and the United States.

Doesn't mean we should have done the same.

Thats exactly the Thatcher love/hate in a nutshell.  Subsidising coal production acceptable in major economic competitors but unacceptable in Thatcher's Britain leading to rapid destruction of mining communities.  

just a point - but all of Europe quite quickly decided that subsidising coal production broke EU rules.

Germany obviously still continue to 'bend' (ie ignore) that rule and subsidise their coal production - but in the longer term it's the lower cost coal from the other places which is relevant rather than that bit.

[VBlue]

Is this the thread saying that Cher's dead?  Nobody has heard that joke right?

[bobAlike]

Is this the thread saying that Cher's dead?  Nobody has heard that joke right?

I'm just relieved it's not T Hatcher

Click to see full-size image.

[VBlue]

That's certainly brightened this thread.

[bobAlike]

Maybe time to change the title to T Hatcher Dead Hot?

[Graham C]

I clicked that to see the full-size image

[MANTIS01]

I brought up the Blair years because for me his legacy will be the Iraq war. I can’t figure out why people are generally so relaxed towards his tenure compared to Thatcher’s, I genuinely can’t. There’s no doubt lots of innocent people were bombed to death on his watch. And it turns out the evidence he presented to parliament justifying it was wrong. I mean as far as mistakes go that’s quite a howler.

Overall I despise war (although I do believe in a strong defence policy) so I think hmm flying over to another part of the world as the aggressor and bombing people for no reason, especially without UN clearance, is a HUGE policy error. A further cost of this policy was our own innocent people getting bombed to death going about their daily business on the tube. Yet people seem to hate Thatcher much more than Blair and are generally quite relaxed about his error. Personally I feel a lot of compassion for those people, sure some aren’t British and they live far away but they got wrongly bombed to death on Blair’s watch. If we want to judge our leaders on their policy errors why isn’t he hated like Thatcher? Is it because of his Saddam was a bogeyman anyway spin?

Nah, I figure it’s because we live in a me me me society. That is prob the reason people hate Thatcher more than Blair. The people who hate Thatcher lost their jobs and it affected their families. They weren’t bombed out the sky when they were sitting down for dinner like, but they lost their livelihoods, so fuck Thatcher. Think it’s now grown into some kinda tribal thing. But any neutral from another country would say Blair’s policy error and the consequences beat all Maggie’s combined. Even so, I don't hate Blair at all.

Please can I ask the mod(s) to let me know if this is known as “trolling” via pm rather than running me down publically?

[TightEnd]

Brilliant speeches from Cameron and Miliband there

Especially Miliband.

Well worth catching if you missed them