99 facing Trigg's 3bet.

[rfgqqabc]

~50k deep at 300/600/50 Said hi to Trigg but not sure he particularly knows who I am or that this is a big comp for me. He 3bet me once before ages ago, and I folded. He has been pretty snug 3bet wise so far but table didn't really warrant it. I went down to 6k early and have been grinding ever since, saw me jam 20bb over 2 limps with AsTs and 5bet jam AQo after a hijack open i 3bet button 4b i shove.

Open 99 to 1200 from lojack. (mp+3 think we were 9 handed)

He 3bets to 2700 on the button. Table is very nice.

I ended up just folding. Felt like I would be set mining a lot, couldn't face any barrels so 99 virtually equals 22 here imo, but we overset more etc etc. Thoughts on the fold? Really didnt want to 4bet and play a big pot because I wasn't 100% what his idea of my game was like. Would rather 4b/fold broadways and Ax etc.

[MTT DESTROYER]

What's wrong with setmining this deep, assuming he has bigger/similar stack and hasn't been getting ool too much?

[Doobs]

Open 99 to 1200 from lojack. (mp+3 think we were 9 handed)

MP+3 is about SB?

I can't fold 99 here, just feels too nitty with antes in.  I assume you are 2 to his left.  I would rather call than fold, but can see why you folded OOP vs a good player, whatever position you are in.  4 bet could get messy, but 99 must be close to bottom of your 4 betting range, so 4 bet folding seems fine too.

It seems a bit inconsistent to 5 bet jam AQ and not 4 bet 99? I guess your stack must be bigger than it was when you had the AQ though.

He has you covered?

[youthnkzR]

4bet folding because its the top f your folding range isn't a left excuse to 4b. Just because you'd peel in a spot w/55 that didn't mean we should 4bet 33.

4betting k9o >99


Edit tis pads

[Doobs]

4bet folding because its the top f your folding range isn't a left excuse to 4b. Just because you'd peel in a spot w/55 that didn't mean we should 4bet 33.

4betting k9o >99


Edit tis pads

There is nothing in your 1st paragraph that I have said or implied. 

We are here to learn though, so why would Adam get freaky with K9o vs a good player OOP?  We aren't playing 5000 hands vs Trigg, so don't need to build in spew, and it doesn't seem to fit in a 4 betting range that is unexploitable*.  I am guessing K9o is near the bottom of Adam's opening range with Trigg 2 to his left (well may be off the bottom, though Adam can advise).

* and I assume we want to be close to this with a good player 2 to our left.

[pleno1]

Open 99 to 1200 from lojack. (mp+3 think we were 9 handed)

but 99 must be close to bottom of your 4 betting range, so 4 bet folding seems fine too.

Anyway yeh it doesn't mater I'd not 4b k9 here I fold kqs to 3bs oop so obviously folding

[rfgqqabc]

Open 99 to 1200 from lojack. (mp+3 think we were 9 handed)

MP+3 is about SB?

I can't fold 99 here, just feels too nitty with antes in.  I assume you are 2 to his left.  I would rather call than fold, but can see why you folded OOP vs a good player, whatever position you are in.  4 bet could get messy, but 99 must be close to bottom of your 4 betting range, so 4 bet folding seems fine too.

It seems a bit inconsistent to 5 bet jam AQ and not 4 bet 99? I guess your stack must be bigger than it was when you had the AQ though.

He has you covered?

I'm 4th to act and Trigg is button sorry, so 3 to my left, got confused as I'd written lojack but not sure its used commonly.

Its hard to flop a set and he can make a bigger set. 4 betting seems bad as I'm essentially bluffing but don't have the blockers. I very much doubt I have any 4 bet bluff range at this stage, the table was too good to bother really, prob peeling or 4ing AQs and 4betting KQo/AJ sometimes but that is about it.

I had about 25k when i jammed the AQ in a very different spot. The button was talking to a guy about the 5/10 game and whilst he hadn't been long everyone seems to think I'm a massive spewbox from the second they see me no matter what.

[Bertpup]

never fold call and play some streets.

[Ant040689]

I think you need to call and re-evaluate the flop. from 50k and the 3 bet totaling 2700, you really need to put a call in there for not so much more. The likelihood he has you crushed stands at around 20%? With 1010-AA on a 9 handed table. Seems he could be doing this with an array of picture cards and suited mid to high connectors, just as you said he is a good player, he can flop quite nicely with those holdings, and he may not need to as he has position and could just out play you. Thus his want to 3 bet with weaker holdings in this spot, especially at the thought that there hasn't been much 4 bet action going on? Plus you have shown form for folding to a previous 3 bet.

You would probably be forced though to deal with a lot of ugly looking boards, ideally with only one overcard, and you are continuously too having to make leap of faith calls in the hope he is bluffing. Of course you can take it upon yourself to play back at him but it could get messy.

I see your frustration, I think it is more than legitimate, but I think for the amount more and whatever table feel you have on Trigg 1500 more is surely worth a go?

I think you omitted how much Trigg's stack was, that would have an effect on what I do too. My style is to try and see a flop relatively cheaply in this spot and look to get creative post flop, not pre, where i think you are exposed too much by putting a 4b in. His involvement to your 4bet normally involves him crushing you with his hand range, and if you were to just peel, you could perhaps attain value by calling down if the board looks dry enough through the streets, and maybe start inducing the bluff from him with one overcard on it, if you are really thinking about a meta game, not the best oppo to be thinking about doing that to though!

 I think the 4b limits the value and increases the volatility. But I am just discussing, don't want you guys to think I am with one point of view and will only ever do that!

Good spot, what you guys think, am i talking bollocks?

[SuuPRlim]

folding obviously a little weak but surely has to be fine, you're sacrificing some EV (clearly continuing in some mannor is going to be profitable) so you don't have to play OOP to a good, experienced player with a hand that doesn't have very good visibility. 

[rfgqqabc]

Trigg has 50k I have 55k I think, not 100% and didn't ask at the time. I'm definitely not folding TT so this is probably the borderline.

I would have expected a 5b/peel the 4bet a decent chunk here, because stacks are so deep and we are oop, and I kinda expect Trigg to put me in a coffin spot at some point if I give him the chance. When I went down to ~8k i opened 88 and he 3bet an open then as well and I couldn't rip for 33bb, especially as it was his first 3bet, although stacks are so perfect for some bullying. This was mainly to check I hadn't gone too far and just been far too respectful and missed a spot.

edit: I have no doubts peeling 99 here for a bunch of people is profitable but its probably closer for a lot of those people then they think.

[Ant040689]

Trigg has 50k I have 55k I think, not 100% and didn't ask at the time. I'm definitely not folding TT so this is probably the borderline.

I would have expected a 5b/peel the 4bet a decent chunk here, because stacks are so deep and we are oop, and I kinda expect Trigg to put me in a coffin spot at some point if I give him the chance. When I went down to ~8k i opened 88 and he 3bet an open then as well and I couldn't rip for 33bb, especially as it was his first 3bet, although stacks are so perfect for some bullying. This was mainly to check I hadn't gone too far and just been far too respectful and missed a spot.

edit: I have no doubts peeling 99 here for a bunch of people is profitable but its probably closer for a lot of those people then they think.

Like I said mate, you had genuine right to feel concerned and even though I may have come across strong above, folding is fine. I do have problems with a 4b though.

[WotRTheChances]

Peel surely? Even if we just c/f on any boards with overs when we don't flop a set we can show profit set-mining here. You're good enough to be able to pick off a couple of streets on some run-outs and Trigg isnt just going to go ape on every runout. I mean folding isn't terrible, but I see no reason not to flick it in here. 4-betting certainly can create problems... I don't see a lot of merit to it in this spot.

[AlexMartin]

how can we fold pre? take it to the streets!

[railtard1]

think folding is REALLY bad. call