State of the bookmaking industry

[redarmi]

This week I have opened two new accounts and proceeded to place six bets in total.  Three of these were on the Champions League semi finals, two of which won, one was on a New York Yankees game which lost and the other two were on lower league football which both lost.  I can now have a maximum of 31p on one account and I havent been able to get low enough on the other account to find an amount they are willing to take on anything.  Now as many of you know I work in the bookmaking industry but I am beginning to wonder if things arent getting somewhat ridiculous.  I can completely understand the need for bookmakers to assess and limit risk but are we now not getting to the point whereby if you show any signs of intelligence then most bookmakers want absolutely nothing to do with you but if you show the opposite then they will happily take advantage.  Slowly but surely they are killing the game and it cannot be to their own advantage because if punters feel like they have no chance to win then there is no incentive at all for them to bet.

[kinboshi]

Reminds me of Matt's comedy thread:

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=56678.0

[tikay]

This week I have opened two new accounts and proceeded to place six bets in total.  Three of these were on the Champions League semi finals, two of which won, one was on a New York Yankees game which lost and the other two were on lower league football which both lost.  I can now have a maximum of 31p on one account and I havent been able to get low enough on the other account to find an amount they are willing to take on anything.  Now as many of you know I work in the bookmaking industry but I am beginning to wonder if things arent getting somewhat ridiculous.  I can completely understand the need for bookmakers to assess and limit risk but are we now not getting to the point whereby if you show any signs of intelligence then most bookmakers want absolutely nothing to do with you but if you show the opposite then they will happily take advantage.  Slowly but surely they are killing the game and it cannot be to their own advantage because if punters feel like they have no chance to win then there is no incentive at all for them to bet.

Yes, but all the while, Turnover for the big UK Retail Bookies (Online) is increasing at a massive rate. Says more, or as much, about the punters, & society, than anything.

Presumably genuine value can still be had at places like Pinny, & on the Exchanges & Spreads though?

[redarmi]

I have always been a strong believer that bookmakers can do business with who they like and bet to whatever size they want but there is something that just doesnt sit well with me now.  One of the firms was 888 and I bet on the Champions League semi finals with them.  Their limits for the bets I placed were 2500 on the win single and 500 on the -FT bets I placed.  I didn't get close to these limits but I did have a decent bet and they didnt move the prices immediately after I bet which was in the run up to the game so presumably they didnt consider them to be a mistake at that point and were happy to take them yet when they won they suddenly didnt want to take bets from me anymore.  This wasnt a dog race at Kinsley or a maiden at Southwell where I might know more than they do.  It was a football match between two of the biggest teams in the world whose every single game is telelvised.  I had no information that they didn't.  If I was a football odds compiler there I would be embarrassed that there was somebody there that has such little faith in my abilities that they just assume that someone that opened an account yesterday knows more about the Champions League semi finals than I did....not only that but he knows so much more he can, apparently, overcome a 8%+ inbuilt edge.  It just seems as though if you are not completely exploitable and can be guaranteed to not only lose but lose at a high margin then they just dont want anything from you.  When that is the case then surely they are just praying on the weak?  Isnt that somewhat morally bankrupt?

[The Camel]

I'm assuming you bet Walsall with 888?

I believe they shut down every acct that bet the Saddlers at 13/8.

Still, beats Jennings who called it palpable error

[action man]

its more fun going round the bookies, cloak and dagger style

[redarmi]

I did bet Walsall with them yes but the bet was only a fraction of the Champions League bets.  What I don't understand at all is why they don't move the price.  I move the price on almost every bet I take because I want to write action.  In this situation on Walsall I might have had 200 quid limits if someone had a bet on them at 13/8 I would go 6/4 and push out Crewe to 13/8-7/4, if I then take another bet i go 11/8 Walsall and 15/8 Crewe, if that is an overreaction I will get a bet on Crewe.  I might occasionally take a view and take more but generally I will move them and try and make some margin.  I will almost certainly not be taking a big view on a meaningless lower limit game and, even if I am the trading director at Ladbrokes or 365 with all their volume if I see more than a handful of fifty quid or higher bets on a Wednesday night for Walsall I will probably take it down and have a look to try and figure out what is going on.  I might even find out and go 9/4 Crewe to try and get some money off the arbers (well actually off my competitors via the arbers) who can take advantage.

 What I absolutely don't do is sit there and take a number big bets @ 13/8, not move the game and then have the gall to throw my toys out of the pram the next day because a few punters were, for once, better informed than me.  Let me contrast this situation with another firm.  Yesterday I got some information that something seemed astray with a game in Northern Ireland.  i bet it at +1.25 1.85 with Pinnacle for a couple of hundred quid which was their limit.  They moved it to 1.72 (I think).  Two hours later it was 1.40 so by my calculations assuming they got nothing back the other side they had about a grands liability on it.  I won half the bet but was happily able to place bets with them the rest of the day.  They didn't take anything silly and they had hit their limit on a relatively minor league so they moved it.  It just seems so simple.  If you are a bookmaker make a book.  Try your hardest to maker your initial prices fairly strong but respect the market and punters and try to get them all in the book and earn a bit.  Too many firms these days seem to think bookmaking is about gambling with and beating people.  It really doesnt have to be.  If you are aggressive enough you can lay all the competitors for a margin and then you dont care where the money comes from.

[redarmi]

its more fun going round the bookies, cloak and dagger style

I couldn't afford the bus fare from Montego Bay!!!!

[redsimon]

I'm assuming you bet Walsall with 888?

I believe they shut down every acct that bet the Saddlers at 13/8.
Still, beats Jennings who called it palpable error

Thats bad, didnt the bet lose ? Seems redic. overreaction

[rfgqqabc]

Only had problems with my paddy/sky/tote account but I made sure they were set up carefully bet on decent markets for a while. Paddy I ruined with some politics bets and now I can only get what I want in nothing markets like the Man U game today. As a runner it was a nightmare but a lot of fun. It must be depressing to want 10 £1k bets and hit the quota on 3, quarter stake some and have nothing on others to have the wrong ones lose. However, the guy I worked for said he'd have retired inside two years if he could bet what he wanted so its not surprising he was limited. The market seems ruined to anyone with a clue but when you hear a big punter talk they give it away. I had a mate brag to me 365 refunded a bet he had on a horse that was a non-runner and he was delighted they gave him the chunky lump back, but that says it all. I know another guy who ONLY bets with 365. Loves them to pieces as I'm sure they love him! The mug money is a joke, and rising as Tikay says.

[The Camel]

I'm assuming you bet Walsall with 888?

I believe they shut down every acct that bet the Saddlers at 13/8.
Still, beats Jennings who called it palpable error

Thats bad, didnt the bet lose ? Seems redic. overreaction

My nephew likes a bet but doesn't really know what he's doing, so he asks me any time there's a good value bet text him and he has a couple of quid on it.

He had £20 on Walsall with 888 at 13/8 and his account got limited.

Pretty pathetic.

[redarmi]

Now I am really pissed off......they have just emailed me to remind me of my bonus!!!!!!!

[adnmdv]

It is pretty silly how these bookies have far higher limits than the Asians/Pinnacle early in the week, go best price and then get annoyed when they get a flurry of bets on minor games.

'so you're letting me get more on this and at a better price? ok'

[Ironside]

What was wrong with walsall game that they took hump with?

[Tal]

What was wrong with walsall game that they took hump with?

The opponents had made a statement that they would be playing an academy side, as the result of the game didn't affect anything else in tthe league. The point of this was that Walsall were a lot bigger than they should have been...even though they didn't win.

Hardly insider info, twitter. Hence the punters' disgust.