Non premium staking?

[Simon Galloway]

The market will find it's own level at some point. My own view is that the general price is too high (there are ofc good value and poor value to be had) ~ However, it may take quite a long time for this to happen as every single binkk prolongs the reduction in markup.

Those selling at a markup can't be doing it as a fun sweat for the community by definition... so that's ruled out.

Those selling at a markup because they want to reduce variance or just can't afford it.. I think should factor in some value that the buyer gives them in return... the buyer is actually providing the seller with a service too.

Those selling at a markup to cover expenses when those expenses are already a sunk cost (i.e. out in Vegas, suddenly decides to sell for the main event at short notice) I find irritating, if not entirely logical to do so.

Those selling at a markup are generally trying to extract the full value of their self-perceived worth (i.e. I'm 1.4 -v- the field so I will charge 1.4)

Those selling via auction aren't sucking every last penny tbf as they are typically selling at the cut-off price, not selling at varying markups as per the individual bids.

Those buying as a punt are free to do so.  £200 in, shot at £20k back, what's not to like?  It is unlikely that anyone will reach a big enough sample size to be able to prove if they are getting value or not.  However, quite a few are coming to the conclusion that the effect of said markup is starting to bite.

Those buying should also factor in the chances of things going wrong and effectively ending up backing a NR ante post.  This includes flat out being rolled, excruciatingly slow paybacks, ITIN mayhem, FX ice-creamery, D-game and unlimited other ways that a stakee could act in ways that are not in your best interest as a backer.

That's a long winded way of agreeing that no one forces you to buy a piece!

[Magic817]

The market will find it's own level at some point. My own view is that the general price is too high (there are ofc good value and poor value to be had) ~ However, it may take quite a long time for this to happen as every single binkk prolongs the reduction in markup.

Those selling at a markup can't be doing it as a fun sweat for the community by definition... so that's ruled out.

Those selling at a markup because they want to reduce variance or just can't afford it.. I think should factor in some value that the buyer gives them in return... the buyer is actually providing the seller with a service too.

Those selling at a markup to cover expenses when those expenses are already a sunk cost (i.e. out in Vegas, suddenly decides to sell for the main event at short notice) I find irritating, if not entirely logical to do so.

Those selling at a markup are generally trying to extract the full value of their self-perceived worth (i.e. I'm 1.4 -v- the field so I will charge 1.4)

Those selling via auction aren't sucking every last penny tbf as they are typically selling at the cut-off price, not selling at varying markups as per the individual bids.

Those buying as a punt are free to do so.  £200 in, shot at £20k back, what's not to like?  It is unlikely that anyone will reach a big enough sample size to be able to prove if they are getting value or not.  However, quite a few are coming to the conclusion that the effect of said markup is starting to bite.

Those buying should also factor in the chances of things going wrong and effectively ending up backing a NR ante post.  This includes flat out being rolled, excruciatingly slow paybacks, ITIN mayhem, FX ice-creamery, D-game and unlimited other ways that a stakee could act in ways that are not in your best interest as a backer.

That's a long winded way of agreeing that no one forces you to buy a piece!

Great post, agree with all of this. This saves me the time to post a worst version of what you said!

Also, one player with no mark up can easily be worse value than another player with a mark up so I don't really see how the no mark up thing helps

[AndrewT]

Love the NR ante-post analogy.

[Marky147]

Simon Galloway in thread crushing shocker...

[Boba Fett]

Seems to have disappeared? Why does everyone seem to thing they are worth more than others?

I have lost my bollocks on staking threads over the years, I take it as a punt and nothing else, but have stopped staking as a result of premiums.

Is it because the stakee's have enough mugs willing to punt? I'm guessing so.......

Maybe its time we should start to say no to premiums? Just throwing it out there... 

Results orientated IMO. How much better off would you really be if the stakes you bought were at lower mu or no mu? Surely not the difference between small loss/breakeven and doing your bollocks?

[Woodsey]

Seems to have disappeared? Why does everyone seem to thing they are worth more than others?

I have lost my bollocks on staking threads over the years, I take it as a punt and nothing else, but have stopped staking as a result of premiums.

Is it because the stakee's have enough mugs willing to punt? I'm guessing so.......

Maybe its time we should start to say no to premiums? Just throwing it out there... 

Results orientated IMO. How much better off would you really be if the stakes you bought were at lower mu or no mu? Surely not the difference between small loss/breakeven and doing your bollocks?

Of course I'm results orientated, don't you want to win instead of do your bollocks? lol 

[kinboshi]

Seems to have disappeared? Why does everyone seem to thing they are worth more than others?

I have lost my bollocks on staking threads over the years, I take it as a punt and nothing else, but have stopped staking as a result of premiums.

Is it because the stakee's have enough mugs willing to punt? I'm guessing so.......

Maybe its time we should start to say no to premiums? Just throwing it out there... 

Results orientated IMO. How much better off would you really be if the stakes you bought were at lower mu or no mu? Surely not the difference between small loss/breakeven and doing your bollocks?

Of course I'm results orientated, don't you want to win instead of do your bollocks? lol 

What Paul's saying is that you would have done your bollocks at a lower mark-up.  So it doesn't matter what the mark-up is if the player doesn't cash as 1.0 x 0 = 1.5 x 0.  In fact, maybe backing players with the higher mark-up might have provided a greater ROI.

[mondatoo]

Kinda feel obliged to post since this went up just after I put two threads up

Basically I'd rather not sell and play what I can on my own dime than sell @ spot for both those threads because I think I'm worth more than that. Who's to say what I'm truly worth though, for live tournaments especially we'll never now, it's such a fickle business since everyone's results orientated, which is fair enough I guess, to an extent, since backers don't have much else to go on. Basically, as said, if you don't think I'm worth it which there's certainly people who don't and that's fine, simples, don't buy.

Everyone is ofc going to get pretty defensive when it comes down to this, and I find this part of your OP pretty offensive if this was aimed at me "Is it because the stakee's have enough mugs willing to punt? I'm guessing so.......". I certainly don't treat people on here like mugs. A few people asked me why I sold so low for the Monte Carlo, also my last live staking thread was put up at 3am, not the busiest time of the forum, it was sold out by 4am. I've now put another live thread up and I'd say these Day1s will be softer than the one I sold for last time and since that had sold out as quickly as it had if I was trying to mug people off I may well have been able to sell at a slightly higher mark up than what I did previously and still sell out, I'm not looking to eek out as much value for myself as possible though, I very much appreciate the fact people invest in me and thus want to put up decent threads.

[Woodsey]

Kinda feel obliged to post since this went up just after I put two threads up

Basically I'd rather not sell and play what I can on my own dime than sell @ spot for both those threads because I think I'm worth more than that. Who's to say what I'm truly worth though, for live tournaments especially we'll never now, it's such a fickle business since everyone's results orientated, which is fair enough I guess, to an extent, since backers don't have much else to go on. Basically, as said, if you don't think I'm worth it which there's certainly people who don't and that's fine, simples, don't buy.

Everyone is ofc going to get pretty defensive when it comes down to this, and I find this part of your OP pretty offensive if this was aimed at me "Is it because the stakee's have enough mugs willing to punt? I'm guessing so.......". I certainly don't treat people on here like mugs. A few people asked me why I sold so low for the Monte Carlo, also my last live staking thread was put up at 3am, not the busiest time of the forum, it was sold out by 4am. I've now put another live thread up and I'd say these Day1s will be softer than the one I sold for last time and since that had sold out as quickly as it had if I was trying to mug people off I may well have been able to sell at a slightly higher mark up than what I did previously and still sell out, I'm not looking to eek out as much value for myself as possible though, I very much appreciate the fact people invest in me and thus want to put up decent threads.

Ray mate, none of it was aimed at anyone in particular. I was semi pissed when I wrote it hence the language lol.

Its just a general observation that just about everyone is selling at a premium, yeah I know supply and demand and all that, but I've basically stopped buying them because of it out of principle to be honest. I really don't like the idea of premiums, my view is we are doing the players a favour by buying them.

Anyway, I expect lots of people to disagree with me, and I have no problem with that.

[mondatoo]

Kinda feel obliged to post since this went up just after I put two threads up

Basically I'd rather not sell and play what I can on my own dime than sell @ spot for both those threads because I think I'm worth more than that. Who's to say what I'm truly worth though, for live tournaments especially we'll never now, it's such a fickle business since everyone's results orientated, which is fair enough I guess, to an extent, since backers don't have much else to go on. Basically, as said, if you don't think I'm worth it which there's certainly people who don't and that's fine, simples, don't buy.

Everyone is ofc going to get pretty defensive when it comes down to this, and I find this part of your OP pretty offensive if this was aimed at me "Is it because the stakee's have enough mugs willing to punt? I'm guessing so.......". I certainly don't treat people on here like mugs. A few people asked me why I sold so low for the Monte Carlo, also my last live staking thread was put up at 3am, not the busiest time of the forum, it was sold out by 4am. I've now put another live thread up and I'd say these Day1s will be softer than the one I sold for last time and since that had sold out as quickly as it had if I was trying to mug people off I may well have been able to sell at a slightly higher mark up than what I did previously and still sell out, I'm not looking to eek out as much value for myself as possible though, I very much appreciate the fact people invest in me and thus want to put up decent threads.

Ray mate, none of it was aimed at anyone in particular. I was semi pissed when I wrote it hence the language lol.

Its just a general observation that just about everyone is selling at a premium, yeah I know supply and demand and all that, but I've basically stopped buying them because of it out of principle to be honest. I really don't like the idea of premiums, my view is we are doing the players a favour by buying them.

Anyway, I expect lots of people to disagree with me, and I have no problem with that.

Yeah, no offence was took,  I assumed by the time you posted you may've had a few, just felt like I should post itt.

 

[pleno1]

Sucks buying in ppl who have less than 40% of theselves imo

would you rather he sold 60% at 1.2 or 80% at 1.0?

serious question btw!

discuss...

[Simon Galloway]

Don't take a piece of anyone that you think doesn't have the character to apply themselves 100% even if having a minority holding.

[nirvana]

Don't take a piece of anyone that you think doesn't have the character to apply themselves 100% even if having a minority holding.

Excellent point imo, I recently bought a piece in a big tub o lard, well known in the poker & Blonde community, no names or anything but to say he didn't apply himself is, in fact, it just is, an understatement.

I know about caveat emptor and all that but I was really pissed about it, shoulda looked for a vouch I guess

[EvilPie]

Don't take a piece of anyone that you think doesn't have the character to apply themselves 100% even if having a minority holding.

Excellent point imo, I recently bought a piece in a big tub o lard, well known in the poker & Blonde community, no names or anything but to say he didn't apply himself is, in fact, it just is, an understatement.

I know about caveat emptor and all that but I was really pissed about it, shoulda looked for a vouch I guess

I've been working on my weight issues recently Glen so next time you buy a slice it'll be in a 'big tub o hard!!'.

Also I'd happily vouch for myself so next time you're well covered.

[nirvana]

'big tub o hard!!'.

A very pleasing nick, just need to find an av to go with it :-)