early mtt spot

[pleno1]

button is a reg, thoughts?

Table '727719834 287' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: pads1161 (4491 in chips)
Seat 2: olic82 (3000 in chips)
Seat 3: VitorLima_pt (5800 in chips)
Seat 4: ANDERS513 (1522 in chips)
Seat 5: margaretka1 (3433 in chips)
Seat 6: Villager89 (2820 in chips)
Seat 7: Powdermatt (11832 in chips)
Seat 8: velikiqpoker (5551 in chips)
Seat 9: MrLAyher (2690 in chips)
pads1161: posts the ante 10
olic82: posts the ante 10
VitorLima_pt: posts the ante 10
ANDERS513: posts the ante 10
margaretka1: posts the ante 10
Villager89: posts the ante 10
Powdermatt: posts the ante 10
velikiqpoker: posts the ante 10
MrLAyher: posts the ante 10
Powdermatt: posts small blind 50
velikiqpoker: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pads1161 [ ]
MrLAyher: folds
pads1161: raises 100 to 200
olic82: folds
VitorLima_pt: folds
ANDERS513: folds
margaretka1: calls 200
Villager89: raises 685 to 885
Powdermatt: folds
velikiqpoker: folds
pads1161:

[pleno1]

one from big 109 too..?

PokerStars Hand #98240523803: Tournament #804010442, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level III (20/40) - 2013/05/07 19:20:35 CET [2013/05/07 13:20:35 ET]
Table '804010442 23' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: TonySttt (1726 in chips)
Seat 2: MARVS (2329 in chips)
Seat 3: cazan5 (3674 in chips)
Seat 4: Assassinato (2688 in chips)
Seat 5: Sugammadex (3147 in chips)
Seat 6: naruto4717 (4209 in chips)
Seat 7: pads1161 (3105 in chips)
Seat 8: rh300487 (3947 in chips)
Seat 9: joquannez (2930 in chips)
naruto4717: posts small blind 20
pads1161: posts big blind 40
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pads1161 [ ]
rh300487: folds
joquannez: folds
TonySttt: folds
MARVS: raises 80 to 120
cazan5: folds
Assassinato: folds
Sugammadex: folds
naruto4717: folds
pads1161: calls 80
*** FLOP *** [ As ]
pads1161: checks
MARVS: bets 180
pads1161: folds
Uncalled bet (180) returned to MARVS
MARVS collected 260 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 260 | Rake 0
Board [ As ]
Seat 1: TonySttt folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: MARVS collected (260)
Seat 3: cazan5 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Assassinato folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Sugammadex (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: naruto4717 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: pads1161 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: rh300487 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: joquannez folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[rfgqqabc]

Hand one seems like a really good squeeze spot, if guy behind is a random flatting feels like a very possible option, I think his range is v.polarised so with stack sizes it seems like 4betting has to be bad.

Hand two, flat or raise pre is fine, if flat prob should defend one on an ace high board, his size is big but these bets can be bet one/showdown so pretty sure i peel another.

[theprawnidentity]

Hand one seems like a pretty easy fold without stats.  His range should be really narrow here.

Hand two he has to bet again for me to go away.

[Eddycadub]

Hand 1 - I'm fine with folding. Sometimes we are mucking the best hand but I don't like flatting or getting in 45bb, and when we fold we still have a fine stack to mess about with in easier spots.

Hand 2 - I like flatting pre and I think that I generally call once and give up to further bets.

[discomonkey]

if im playing well i think i fold hand 1, i think im flatting all bigger pairs

hand 2 i think you should 3bet pre hes mp and ur bb im sure you have done enough monkeyish stuff to make this an easy 3bet, fwiw i thinkits a 3bet readless 1st hand of the mtt. having flatted, we can flat the flop and not expect people to be barrelling wide in the early stages of a 100f

[gs08bjohnson]

Is this a level to generate more interest in your last longer bets?

[SuuPRlim]

hilarious how excited I was about a Benkins strat post only to find a sarcastic and cynical one.

I should know better.

[pleno1]

Haha I dOnt think they are that simple tbh.



If anything I'm mainly trying to find out MTT players thought processes here as I'm seeing people play v tight early and adjusting a few things.

Hand. 1 was from a 11 hot or something and I got it in as his sizing seemed overly big and he had 88 or something.

Hand 2 I have zero 3bet bluffs here so just eliminated my 3 betting range pre which I think is good in hsmtt and. in ssmtt, otf  it'sv hard for us to improve now pot is relatively tiny, I'm in general super stubborn/don't ever fold but thought this was one of the spots where it could potentially be fine.

I guess what we learned here is not so much about how to play qq on add early in an MTT without initiative but we should 2 barrel a lot against regs early on

[pleno1]

Guessed should just squeeze all the time too if people are just defending qq(kk?)+

[Pinchop73]

Get it in hand 1 fow sho in this comp.

Hand 2. Seeing as we're hu oop before we take any action I abs have to 3b this. Even more so once I've looked up OR, and looked at his stack size and realised that it looks like he's been pretty active. It's also a very very strong table (randy ip to us), so getting into a dece size pot vs the spot would be the nut scenario until the table breaks. Not many other easy chippies to collect.
As played I just check fold flop.

Agreed tho that barrelling vs certain players early is very profitable.

[rfgqqabc]

How did 88 get in? Def get in in hot 11/16.50 I think I call to keep other opponent in then c/raise get in.

I don't see how a 0 3bet buff range correlates to never 3betting, it is going to take a long time for people to work these things out.

[gs08bjohnson]

 Sorry Dave. I'll make an effort to atone.

Am very surprised that anyone thinks hand 1 is anything but a very standard shove.
The guys bet sizing means that you are barely ever crushed, and he's not folding. The guy flagging probably has a better chance of having you crushed. Being the hot 11 makes it even more clear cut. I can understand those saying fold, they're just being very pessimistic. Flatting, however, is just fundamentally awful. JJ would probably be the worst hand to flat here, you allow yourself to either a. Be needlessly outflopped or b. find a flop you lose value on as villain gets scared. Fwiw I can't advocate flatting anything here as the villain never folds when you're strong or you just don't have a good price when you aren't.

Hand 2, however, I do believe to be interesting but not so much for the hand itself, but more the spot in general. I think arguments can be made for both flatting and 3 betting, I will do both here on occasion. Early stages of mtts play very differently to cash, some people are very reticent to 4 bet whilst others are just punting around and don't care. I think the best line is very villain dependent. I will not go into all the various ranges I will play differently versus certain players here, most of it is common sense. One example though are hands like AJ and AQ versus players I don't believe 4b at all light. I prefer to 3b golf these hands, especially offsuit where they play poorly m/way, since you don't want to take flops with the nutted hands these villains 4b. It's very difficult to flop well and win big with these pots, and people do peel some hands you dominate or fold hands with decent equity vs you.

I also think that cash game grinders get too concerned with balance in mtts, you don't play thousands of hands 100bb deep with anyone, being unbalanced is fine. It's only bad to play exploitably if people will exploit you.

As a side note I hope you didn't take the first comment personally, it was meant in jest.

[pleno1]

Sorry Dave. I'll make an effort to atone.

Am very surprised that anyone thinks hand 1 is anything but a very standard shove.
The guys bet sizing means that you are barely ever crushed, and he's not folding. The guy flagging probably has a better chance of having you crushed. Being the hot 11 makes it even more clear cut. I can understand those saying fold, they're just being very pessimistic. Flatting, however, is just fundamentally awful. JJ would probably be the worst hand to flat here, you allow yourself to either a. Be needlessly outflopped or b. find a flop you lose value on as villain gets scared. Fwiw I can't advocate flatting anything here as the villain never folds when you're strong or you just don't have a good price when you aren't.

Hand 2, however, I do believe to be interesting but not so much for the hand itself, but more the spot in general. I think arguments can be made for both flatting and 3 betting, I will do both here on occasion. Early stages of mtts play very differently to cash, some people are very reticent to 4 bet whilst others are just punting around and don't care. I think the best line is very villain dependent. I will not go into all the various ranges I will play differently versus certain players here, most of it is common sense. One example though are hands like AJ and AQ versus players I don't believe 4b at all light. I prefer to 3b golf these hands, especially offsuit where they play poorly m/way, since you don't want to take flops with the nutted hands these villains 4b. It's very difficult to flop well and win big with these pots, and people do peel some hands you dominate or fold hands with decent equity vs you.

I also think that cash game grinders get too concerned with balance in mtts, you don't play thousands of hands 100bb deep with anyone, being unbalanced is fine. It's only bad to play exploitably if people will exploit you.

As a side note I hope you didn't take the first comment personally, it was meant in jest.

Hey

Ofc not no and we actually have the same thought process in bth hands so it's fine. But the mjority seem to want to fold jj so there's at least some discussion. Basically when I see guys getting it in like this in anything over a 50 conp they always have qq+ so I doubted myself.

In terms of balance, my post didn't mean that it just meant that MTT players are playing extremely exploitively and I actually want to be very unbalanced and have tonnes of bluffs (both hands in villibs perspective) I do agree thT most players moving from cg to MTT hve huge flaws thinking bout balanced and not wanting to be exploited. The fact is that MTT guys aren't that great post flop And won't be good enough/or they are playing too many tables to really have good long term strategies.

Ofc this is not the case for all MTT players.

Thanks for the post tho and agree.

[Boba Fett]

I also think that cash game grinders get too concerned with balance in mtts, you don't play thousands of hands 100bb deep with anyone, being unbalanced is fine. It's only bad to play exploitably if people will exploit you.

This