zoom 50nl we have a good hand..

[jgcblack]

http://wt.ag/ZUBIsi


what are we thinking?

agree with pre, f, t??

I can't think of many hands that make sense for him....... AND we have the single interesting blocker

[pleno1]

he can have axsx like at, a9, a8, a7, a6, a5, mazbe even aq aj tht he didnt 3bet pre

reads

spaz then call
nit then fold

[jgcblack]

he can have axsx like at, a9, a8, a7, a6, a5, mazbe even aq aj tht he didnt 3bet pre

reads

spaz then call
nit then fold

first session at 50nl bro - readless.....

didn't seem like a likely/ credible bluff line to me

[pleno1]

well he could have 98s, 97s, 87s, 65s, etc

[The Squid]

I call here always. They just hitting the panic button most likely.

[jgcblack]

I call here always. They just hitting the panic button most likely.

no offense intended.. but what do you mean?

[Honeybadger]

Readless this is a call. Not much to think about really; our entire range that is not the nut flush is now a bluff catcher, and we have the best possible bluff catcher. Unless we are making the assumption that villain is very rarely bluffing in this spot then we should call with some amount of our bluff catchers, and Qsx is the top of our bluff-catching range.

It may well be that players at 50NL just don't bluff here often enough. Or it may well be that they are bluffing too much. I have no idea about this. Maybe someone will come into the thread and say "villain is never bluffing here... nobody ever bluffs at 50NL on four-flush runouts", or maybe he will say the opposite. But since you don't know, then you should just go with theory which says you must have a bluff catching range here. And thus you should definitely call with your hand.

I am guessing, however, that this will be a spazzy bluff or weird merge much more often than you might think. Hands like JsTs that have trapped on the turn, got a bad river card, and just randomly shipped because they are confused - 'hitting the panic button' as The Squid says. Or even stuff like T9 and 77 that have trapped on the flop and lost the plot after the turn/river run out. People do weird things.

As an aside, villain 'shouldn't' have too many offsuit Aces in his BB flatting range - not to say he won't have, just that he shouldn't. And many of these offsuit Aces won't get to the turn; if he is defending As2c preflop then is he really check-calling the flop? Moreover, sometimes he will check-raise the turn as a semi-bluff if he has something like AsTh. So, if he has the nut flush there is a fairly good chance that he outdrew you on the turn not the river.

[MelissaChloe]

Call call call call call.

If they show  say 'nh' and now use the very useful info you have just got on them after them taking a strange line

[DMorgan]

Call all day, villain gets to the river with a pretty wide range of hands that you beat and only need to be bluffing with a small %age of them to make it a call which he certainly will imo in the absence of a read to suggest otherwise.

[jgcblack]

oh wow...

I'm surprised at how many people think this is a call.  At the time I thought 'this sucks, guess i have to pay the man' but then remembered how every time I can remember feeling like this at <25nl all that happened is i was shown exactly what beat me, whether it is one or two combo's.

I actually folded in game and was pretty happy about it.  I guess I'll think about any spots like this a little more as i move forward.

I know Stu will ask me about combo's and frequencies and so on, I guess my 'instinct' was that this is just someone 'panicshoving' the nuts because they don't know what else to do.  As I've seen to my loss in the last couple of weeks of live poker, quite a lot.

[theprawnidentity]

He's gonna have to show me it here.

[jgcblack]

He's gonna have to show me it here.