Scoop -31 Low

[dreenie]

Scoop L :

Not much in the way of reads, OPR'd him and played hardly anything all year.
He literally snap shoves when I put the 4th bet in.
What range of hand should I be calling with if I think something's not right? What do you think his range will be?

PokerStars Hand #98966144181: Tournament #2013050311, $20+$5+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (250/500) - 2013/05/22 22:53:46 WET [2013/05/22 17:53:46 ET]
Table '2013050311 1263' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: dreeniee82 (22743 in chips)
Seat 2: Fuxxored (3748 in chips)
Seat 3: ExMaxwell (16789 in chips)
Seat 4: BornSurvivor (9031 in chips)
Seat 5: $corpion11 (34450 in chips)
Seat 6: PokerPete04 (21833 in chips)
Seat 7: martinkaa68 (8580 in chips)
Seat 8: WierdMe (36212 in chips)
Seat 9: fishgirl19y (13744 in chips)
dreeniee82: posts the ante 60
Fuxxored: posts the ante 60
ExMaxwell: posts the ante 60
BornSurvivor: posts the ante 60
$corpion11: posts the ante 60
PokerPete04: posts the ante 60
martinkaa68: posts the ante 60
WierdMe: posts the ante 60
fishgirl19y: posts the ante 60
BornSurvivor: posts small blind 250
$corpion11: posts big blind 500
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dreeniee82 : XX

PokerPete04: folds
martinkaa68: folds
WierdMe: raises 500 to 1000
fishgirl19y: calls 1000
dreeniee82: raises 1841 to 2841
Fuxxored: folds
ExMaxwell: folds
BornSurvivor: folds
$corpion11: folds
WierdMe: raises 2281 to 5122
fishgirl19y: folds
dreeniee82: raises 2728 to 7850
WierdMe: raises 28302 to 36152 and is all-in

[wazz]

He's taking the line that he doesn't expect you to fold having put in more than a third of your stack, so he has a value hand. You're getting better than 3-1 I think (someone check my maths please?) so barring funky ICM situations you're gonna have to call here. You don't have room to 5b/fold any sizing so I would jam or flat unless I had AA or KK (yes, obviously very exploitable, but we don't expect a rando @ $27 bi scoop to be able to exploit us by folding JJ/QQ/AK more than 1 time in a billion).

[pleno1]

I know he had some shit here.

But we really should t be looking to get it in wih tens and unlikely with aq.

Stack is so good and with structure of this scoop we can just churn lots of small and. Erin pots.
It's a myth that you have to be aggressive or a warrior pre flop.

Just lots of small aggression, 3betting in position, raising flops, double barrelIng etc.

Trying to ever 5 or 6 bet light in a 27 is just going to be spew unless super good reads.

If we have aa or kk I may even just flat call the 4bet so probably just ak I'm playing like this and even that it's more a fml than a wiiiii

[dreenie]

I'll give u a list of hands what I might have had and if u can tell me what u think I had, and also whether u think I called? I will reveal results tomorrow ..

  

  

  

  

  

  

[wazz]

I'd say you had As or

but not

[Doobs]

Dreenie loves the game, so this is inevitably 8c5c vs 7s6s. 

Did we hold?

[youthnkzR]

Don't know results but would guess you had    . Think in general villain has a super strong range as we don't really look like we're folding too often. But then again it is a KO and randoms really do overvalue the $5 for the KO so I suppose it's not totally out of the question that he could be fos and have like 89s/A3s...etc.

we have 45bbs in a turbo, think we can be slightly more selective about the spots we get in then this if we don't have a good hand.

As played with A10 (if that's what we have we can fold)

[dreenie]

Dreenie loves the game, so this is inevitably 8c5c vs 7s6s. 

Did we hold?

loooooool Doobs, made me chuckle

[dreenie]

OK, get ready for the flames dweeenieeeeee :

PokerStars Hand #98966144181: Tournament #2013050311, $20+$5+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (250/500) - 2013/05/22 22:53:46 WET [2013/05/22 17:53:46 ET]
Table '2013050311 1263' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: dreeniee82 (22743 in chips)
Seat 2: Fuxxored (3748 in chips)
Seat 3: ExMaxwell (16789 in chips)
Seat 4: BornSurvivor (9031 in chips)
Seat 5: $corpion11 (34450 in chips)
Seat 6: PokerPete04 (21833 in chips)
Seat 7: martinkaa68 (8580 in chips)
Seat 8: WierdMe (36212 in chips)
Seat 9: fishgirl19y (13744 in chips)
dreeniee82: posts the ante 60
Fuxxored: posts the ante 60
ExMaxwell: posts the ante 60
BornSurvivor: posts the ante 60
$corpion11: posts the ante 60
PokerPete04: posts the ante 60
martinkaa68: posts the ante 60
WierdMe: posts the ante 60
fishgirl19y: posts the ante 60
BornSurvivor: posts small blind 250
$corpion11: posts big blind 500
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dreeniee82 [td Ah]
PokerPete04: folds
ri$h [observer] said, "good play"
martinkaa68: folds
ri$h [observer] said, "JQ OFF THE NUTS"
WierdMe: raises 500 to 1000
ri$h [observer] said, "<'))><"
fishgirl19y: calls 1000
dreeniee82: raises 1841 to 2841
Fuxxored: folds
ExMaxwell: folds
BornSurvivor: folds
$corpion11: folds
WierdMe: raises 2281 to 5122
fishgirl19y: folds
dreeniee82: raises 2728 to 7850
WierdMe: raises 28302 to 36152 and is all-in
dreeniee82: calls 14833 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (13469) returned to WierdMe
*** FLOP *** [ ]
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
WierdMe: shows [ ] (two pair, Jacks and Threes)
dreeniee82: shows [td Ah] (high card Ace)
WierdMe collected 47656 from pot
WierdMe wins the $5 bounty for eliminating dreeniee82
dreeniee82 finished the tournament in 3477th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 47656 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: dreeniee82 showed [td Ah] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 2: Fuxxored folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: ExMaxwell (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: BornSurvivor (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: $corpion11 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: PokerPete04 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: martinkaa68 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: WierdMe showed [ ] and won (47656) with two pair, Jacks and Threes
Seat 9: fishgirl19y folded before Flop

[dreenie]

I actually strongly agree with all of Pleno's comments about structure, sometimes passing up on aggro spots due to the 'softness' of the tournament.

However, maybe I got stubborn who knows, but I just felt something really weird was going on. On paper it looks a clear fold, and most will probably just fold pre or fold after he's put the 4th bet in at least.

A lot of my instinct came down to not being at the table that long, sounds weird, but it's the truth. Surely if you have some strong holding here you take a bit of time and think about things, and try and induce me to call it off light? He's not played many games this year so highly unlikely we have history.

As pleno said, even if we think we are winning, and our instinct smells a rat, logically we are still up against 2 random cards that can easily flop well, and with structure & softness of tournament, I would not do this over and over. Just half the time with me it's a case of instinct which clouds all the other stuff and I end up clicking call :/

[outragous76]

Always be the shover in these spots not the sigh caller

[wazz]

I've seen a few threads by you with this sort of theme - unjustified elaborate play that works out best against the exact hand you're facing. It's possible you've got some form of timing tell that you're not sharing or reason beyond what you've told us to believe he's shoving uberlight, in which case this is good, but on the basis of the information you've provided, it's definitely a mistake to get it in with ATo here.

[dreenie]

I've seen a few threads by you with this sort of theme - unjustified elaborate play that works out best against the exact hand you're facing. It's possible you've got some form of timing tell that you're not sharing or reason beyond what you've told us to believe he's shoving uberlight, in which case this is good, but on the basis of the information you've provided, it's definitely a mistake to get it in with ATo here.

Basically it's Instinct, deep down it can't carry you Imo, there is more you need to know such as ranges and maths etc, but at times I go with my read, there is not a real way how I can describe Instinct, I can't write it down that's for sure, 90% of the time I don't post here is because I can't explain myself properly, and it comes across badly in terms of 'poker lingo'.

It just felt really weird in words I can't describe or express. The outcome is irrelevant as to why I was posting tho, it's genuinely to try and get more experience on terminology, ranges and just improve as a player.

Thanks for the comments, taken on board.

[pleno1]

the instinct should also be from the first bet.

For example, button opens and I have KJo in the sb, I may knwo the btn is an absolute loon and i say ok you know what, its 2am on Sunday and my hand is strong and I feel like he will 4bet jam bluff a lot because of the recent dynamic.

So I decide to go with my instinct and make a decision to 3b with the intention of calling all in vs his J3 or whatever he jams.

This logic is fine, but just 3betting and then going with your instinct once he 4b all in makes no sense at all and is just clikcing buttons and punting.

[wazz]

I've seen a few threads by you with this sort of theme - unjustified elaborate play that works out best against the exact hand you're facing. It's possible you've got some form of timing tell that you're not sharing or reason beyond what you've told us to believe he's shoving uberlight, in which case this is good, but on the basis of the information you've provided, it's definitely a mistake to get it in with ATo here.

Basically it's Instinct, deep down it can't carry you Imo, there is more you need to know such as ranges and maths etc, but at times I go with my read, there is not a real way how I can describe Instinct, I can't write it down that's for sure, 90% of the time I don't post here is because I can't explain myself properly, and it comes across badly in terms of 'poker lingo'.

It just felt really weird in words I can't describe or express. The outcome is irrelevant as to why I was posting tho, it's genuinely to try and get more experience on terminology, ranges and just improve as a player.

Thanks for the comments, taken on board.

Again that's all fine but there's not a huge amount that any of us can learn from this - instinct is not teachable.