Double/triple/quadruple chance.

[Killerkilsby]

Hi guys not quite a PHA but related all the same.

There is an increased amount of these type of competitions especially at the low/mid stakes.

Just wondering how other people percieve the most EV way to play these comps are, if we are readless on the table.

For example a £50 freezeout which is quadruple chance, you can start with 5/10/15/20k chips, what would you start with and why?

[outragous76]

take them all (if you are any good and can play post flop, def do this)

in theory if villains have any idea what they are doing they should also be taking them all as soon as someone else does, thereby you force there decision.

[wazz]

Definitely don't take them all to begin with. Give yourself a chance to check out your table first. If after half an hour it's clear that everyone at the table is a sicko, and all the big pots have been won by the guys on your left, it would be pretty awful to be stuck with the maximum stack - you'd be better off hoping to get moved or have your table broken, or wait until you're forced to take the rebuys so that you minimize the amount of time spent out of position, deep-stacked to good players.

On the contrary, ofc, if after 10 minutes it's clear that the guys on your right are all terrible and they've taken their rebuys go ahead and rebuy to cover them.

Standard cash game practice.

[Killerkilsby]

Some good responses and a mixture of both is probably the nut strategy. Assess the table then choose your stack. What if everyone remained at 5k and skill level both left and right was incred fishy.

[wazz]

Some good responses and a mixture of both is probably the nut strategy. Assess the table then choose your stack. What if everyone remained at 5k and skill level both left and right was incred fishy.

You can't mix these strategies... If everyone remained at 5k and the skill level on your table was incredibly fishy, what advantage would it be to take the addon when you can do it literally the hand after a fish doubles up? Stay flexible.

[outragous76]

Some good responses and a mixture of both is probably the nut strategy. Assess the table then choose your stack. What if everyone remained at 5k and skill level both left and right was incred fishy.

You can't mix these strategies... If everyone remained at 5k and the skill level on your table was incredibly fishy, what advantage would it be to take the addon when you can do it literally the hand after a fish doubles up? Stay flexible.

strongly disagree with wazz on this

Anytime where you would have coolered/outdrawn someone and you haven't got them covered but could of have them covered, it is a ridiculously huge mistake in MTTs

[wazz]

You can quite literally take the addon as soon as the fish as money and not miss any spots.

I strongly disagree with your statement anyway. For example your thinking would lead to a strategy where we don't get involved in any implied odds pots, because most of the time we miss and we should be saving our chips such that when we do pick up a premium hand, we make more from it when we double up.

A lot of the time these stacks don't even come into play in the first level anyway.

[outragous76]

You can quite literally take the addon as soon as the fish as money and not miss any spots.

I strongly disagree with your statement anyway. For example your thinking would lead to a strategy where we don't get involved in any implied odds pots, because most of the time we miss and we should be saving our chips such that when we do pick up a premium hand, we make more from it when we double up.

A lot of the time these stacks don't even come into play in the first level anyway.

You cant account for that as villains would view it the same. Pretty sure I'm happy play deep vs most MTTs players in position, and if you happen to draw Moorman to your left then just adjust. The point is that missing the opportunity to double is always going to be an error. You cant account for coolers/set ups but you can be as prepared as possible for them.

Lets say we are a standard (2k 2k 3k) or (3k 3k 4k) game, not getting a double thru for the full amount if you WOULD have done is a horror show. You are literally burning money.

[wazz]

I'm gonna pull you up on your usage of literally.

What I'm saying is that there's no advantage to having a 10k stack on the first hand if everyone at your table has a 5k stack. If after the first hand the guy directly on your right doubles up after playing like a complete tit, well you can just go ahead and ask the dealer to top you up and cover him without missing any opportunities whatsoever to take advantage. However if when everyone sits down you have moorman, griffin benger, elky, ben lamb, etc etc on your table, I'm pretty sure you'd rather play short-stacked and let them go to war with each other, preventing yourself being exploited deep-stacked by sickos. It's cool that you're prepared to adjust if a deep sicko sits on your left but that doesn't mean we're now in a much less +ev spot than we were before, where we could have avoided that by saving our addons.

And you can account for the implied odds pots problem, as the whole reason we play poker is that we expect to think about poker better than our opponents, exploiting their less sophisticated thought process.

[outragous76]

Yes, but you can also reverse your very unlikely situation, by BEING the guy to take the chips and thereby making (some) others do the same.

[SuuPRlim]

dont take any and see what youre table is like, the PLO tourneys in vegas are like this, you get 3 bullets, people take them all striaght away just seems stupid, blinds start at 50/75 i take my whole 15k and Glafond sits down on my left and also takes his full 3, brilliant, if no1 else at the table has taken then you should defo NOT take, soon as someone you think is weaker has even 500 more chips than you just take em then.

I played Bryn Kenney in the wsop HU event last year and he did this to me, played a couple of orbits in NL, realised he was better than me and then took the addons striaght away, so we played 45 minutes  shallow in my weaker game where his edge isn't even THAT high cos i have half a clue what I'm doing and the stacks aren't deep, now roll on the PLO round and I can decide exactly how deep I want the stacks to be in my strongest game. There is no way that's a good strategy.