You really ought to read this.......

[Tal]

It's more about how his perceptions of poker have changed. Perception is reality.

Its perception vs romantic notion thou

brevity ftw

+1

Alright, Polonius!

obv had to look that up, obv am now waving my fist in the air you cheeky sob :p

In that scene, he is telling Hamlet's mother that Hamlet is going mad (given that he's chuntering to no one in particular about philosophy and the point of it all). Seemed like you nailed it tbh

[titaniumbean]

ya that's what I do brah.


love a good rant.


I DON'T BELIEVE IT!  is it?

[Tal]

Just don't go spying on me and you'll be fine (didn't end well for Polonius).



Thread title was 'You really oughta read this' and I think that has delivered.

[Doobs]

It's more about how his perceptions of poker have changed. Perception is reality.

Its perception vs romantic notion thou

the reality is that during his clouded rose tinted specs of "ZOMG first WSOP event", he just didn't see the other stuff going on. Now its all second nature, its all he notices

Guy is completely right here. 

As my dreams were crushed in my first main event a few from the bubble, I was greeted by villain shouting ship it, ship it.  Back in 2007 it was.  He must have been late 30s/ early 40s and had $4m or so in cashes.  Classless cockends in every generation, and there always has been. 

The author needs to learn plo8, the atmosphere at the tables is so much better.     


   

[pleno1]

It's more about how his perceptions of poker have changed. Perception is reality.

Its perception vs romantic notion thou

the reality is that during his clouded rose tinted specs of "ZOMG first WSOP event", he just didn't see the other stuff going on. Now its all second nature, its all he notices

I beg to differ. I played the 6max Ept Omaha, omaha8 and nl event and 90% of the field were o8players.

I made a mistake in o8 and he hole table laughed at me and started beig v rude if I was a touch note sensitive (see 8 inches taller) I Wouk have likely kicked off!

Mugs.

Guy is completely right here. 

As my dreams were crushed in my first main event a few from the bubble, I was greeted by villain shouting ship it, ship it.  Back in 2007 it was.  He must have been late 30s/ early 40s and had $4m or so in cashes.  Classless cockends in every generation, and there always has been. 

The author needs to learn plo8, the atmosphere at the tables is so much better.     


   

[Suited_Jock]

I personally don't think this is a 2013 thing.. When I first played live in 2005 I had the exact same experience of mickey taking, that newbs should instantly know everything about live poker and etiquette, that the whole table plays with each other day in day out and who was I to come into their cardroom?

I kept going back but always with the mantra that I was not there to make friends or to impress or conform, I was there to make money and I would try to be as pleasant as I could be if someone was speaking to me much the same as I would in any other walk of life

[Tal]

My first time in Vegas saw me at Caesar's playing a 220 event in 2008. A six foot, broad but ageing man in a cowboy hat, sporting one of those drawstring ties with a cow skull on it watched me play a couple of hands light and declared in a joyously deep southern drawl:

"Ah see we got ourselves one of those 'awn-line' players"

The table laughed. He stared deep into my eyes and I felt like he was tickling the back of my soul. I honestly to this day consider that to be part of my poker education.

I believe it was that comp where I later shook the hand of Steve Danneman...true story...and we're back on topic

[SuuPRlim]

it's very simple, if you're not a dick you'll be fun to share a poker table with, if you are then you won't.

I agree its cringe but it's not that big of a problem imo, people will always play tournaments and these guys just don't survive in cash games.

IMO, the two area's where this sprt of thing is rife is a) Mid-Stakes tournaments, tourneys like £300 and £500 events in the UK are bad for this, everyone chatting after every hand I"I knew you had a Queen" etc and small stakes cash games, this stuff doesn't go on in high stakes cash games, or at least VERY rarely.

Also I know it's been said already ITT but this is a problem equally spilt across the age groups, not just the young 'uns, the reason the yooungsters get the stick is because nowadays they are so blazen about "maximising EV" talking about bankroll's, profit and stuff openly. Shouldn't do that.

[tikay]

It's more about how his perceptions of poker have changed. Perception is reality.

Its perception vs romantic notion thou

the reality is that during his clouded rose tinted specs of "ZOMG first WSOP event", he just didn't see the other stuff going on. Now its all second nature, its all he notices

Guy is completely right here. 

As my dreams were crushed in my first main event a few from the bubble, I was greeted by villain shouting ship it, ship it.  Back in 2007 it was.  He must have been late 30s/ early 40s and had $4m or so in cashes.  Classless cockends in every generation, and there always has been. 
The author needs to learn plo8, the atmosphere at the tables is so much better.     


   

Can't believe you remembered that. Sorry, I just got a little excited.

[DungBeetle]

This entire debate confuses me.

In my experience the UK has a higher than average number of bellends in the population.  Why are we expecting the demographics to change at a poker table?  Anyone behaving with low social skills or just being an outright idiot in the game, will almost certainly have the same problem when conducting the rest of their daily lives.

[wazz]

Also I know it's been said already ITT but this is a problem equally spilt across the age groups, not just the young 'uns, the reason the yooungsters get the stick is because nowadays they are so blazen about "maximising EV" talking about bankroll's, profit and stuff openly. Shouldn't do that.

What's so wrong with talking about those things personally?

Both ages group discuss strategy at the table more than they should; the difference is that the younger generation is generally better at it. In terms of overall decorum, I actually think the younger generation is much, much better than the older.

I really didn't like the artilce at all. He took a long, windy route to his eventual message, which was over almost as soon as it began; his overall message breaks down to 'THINGS ARE GETTING WORSE! WHEN I WAS YOUNGER THEY WERE AMAZING! I HATE MODERNITY!'. As some have pointed out, it's likely simply a case of not looking for certain things at certain times and then going out of his way to find them later. Of course, people should be fun and welcoming and not do any of the retarded things he mentions in his article. But we don't need this article to tell us that.

[TommyD]

I had exactly the same spot as the blogger's recent example at the Monte Carlo just gone.  Internet player (very good as well tbf) sat there having a long private but in front of everyone chat with his young  railer mate, both exceptional confident about the young man's chances.  Then he started to advise everyone at the table to play on Lock because the games are soft.  After that I couldn't take him seriously.

[Honeybadger]

I enjoyed the article.

Yes, it is overly nostalgic. Yes, it takes a while to get to the point. Yes, it seems to be incorrectly suggesting that things are much worse now than they were then. Yes, it makes too many generalisations - e.g. that younger (online) players are much worse for the games than older (live) players. But I don't care about these things. Because the overall point that he is making is a very good one.

It does not really matter whether someone is a young internet hotshot, or an old-school live player. There are plenty of players from both groups who are a nause on the games they sit in. There are also plenty from each group who grace the games with their presence. Being old or young is not the important thing (and Titbeam's vitriol against older live players is unfair... they are not all moody angle shooters!). Being a pleasure to play with is all that matters.

The guys who might learn and improve from reading this article are not the scumbags or douches, whether young or old. They will never learn. However, there are a load of players out there who are nice guys but who simply have not quite worked out yet how to behave at the poker table. And this is the sort of article that might make it click for some of them. And the more players it clicks for, the better it is for everyone.

The thing I particularly liked about the article is that it reminded me just how much new players enjoy the game, and just how much of a thrill it is for them the first time they sit down in a tournament or in a cash game. It should always be our aim to enhance the enjoyment of inexperienced players at the table. They are enjoying themselves much more than we are since it is so new and exciting to them. I don't want to burst their bubble in any way - I want to help that bubble last as long as possible. It is wonderful to see inexperienced players truly feeling every pot they play, and riding an incredible rush of excitement during a hand. I am jealous of them in many ways, because I will never get that same rush and joy from poker again. You only get those feelings when you are just starting.

I remember about five years ago I was playing in a cash game and there was an APAT tournament going on in the casino. There were hundreds of players and they were all loving the game so much. You could tell that at least half the field had been looking forward to this tournament for weeks, and that they were feeling every moment of it right now. They had butterflies in their stomachs every time they played a pot. Whenever someone got knocked out the entire room would give them a round of applause. I thought this was wonderful. But some of the players at my table were laughing at this, and making snide remarks about how silly these guys were to be getting so excited for a 50 quid tournament. This was mean-spirited and hugely lacking in understanding of what poker is really all about. I told the table they were all mean buggers and to stop looking down their noses at others: "These guys are enjoying their poker more than any of us have enjoyed playing for years. You should be envying them, not laughing at them."

Part of your job as a poker player is to sustain a game that allows inexperienced players to experience the thrill of playing poker as intensely and joyfully as possible. You don't need to 'give sick action' to do this. Neither do you need to 'pal them up'. All you need to do is to be pleasant at the table, and to do nothing at all that might reduce the enjoyment of your fellow players. If you act well at the table then whenever you see a newer player truly enjoying himself and experiencing the full excitement of poker, then you can think to yourself "My presence at the table is contributing to this game running, and thus to this player having a game to play in. This means I played a small part in allowing this person to feel the intense joy and excitement that he just felt when he played that pot." Even if you have not directly caused that player's enjoyment it is still great to know that you are playing a small part in the pleasure he is having, just through you taking a seat at the table. And, apart from anything, it is wonderful and self-affirming to watch anyone experiencing true joy.

[Fish]

Poker as a game/sport is unique as anyone can play at any chosen level so by its very nature it creates bigger egos which is all this thread is about, any 'luckbox' can bink a big comp which is hard for many players to except hence why losing players 'run bad'
plus nearly all poker players overate their own ability especially after their own first 'bink' its not a new thing it is probably just done in a different way, players now use a lot of overly complicated (imo) jargon in a bid too seperate theirselves from the fish and 'newbies' however it is still just about egos
Poker is probably the most egotistical sport/game in the world bcos absolutely everyone can participate so the differnce in levels between competing players is greater than all other sports

[stumpythefish]

I enjoyed the article.

Yes, it is overly nostalgic. Yes, it takes a while to get to the point. Yes, it seems to be incorrectly suggesting that things are much worse now than they were then. Yes, it makes too many generalisations - e.g. that younger (online) players are much worse for the games than older (live) players. But I don't care about these things. Because the overall point that he is making is a very good one.

It does not really matter whether someone is a young internet hotshot, or an old-school live player. There are plenty of players from both groups who are a nause on the games they sit in. There are also plenty from each group who grace the games with their presence. Being old or young is not the important thing (and Titbeam's vitriol against older live players is unfair... they are not all moody angle shooters!). Being a pleasure to play with is all that matters.

The guys who might learn and improve from reading this article are not the scumbags or douches, whether young or old. They will never learn. However, there are a load of players out there who are nice guys but who simply have not quite worked out yet how to behave at the poker table. And this is the sort of article that might make it click for some of them. And the more players it clicks for, the better it is for everyone.

The thing I particularly liked about the article is that it reminded me just how much new players enjoy the game, and just how much of a thrill it is for them the first time they sit down in a tournament or in a cash game. It should always be our aim to enhance the enjoyment of inexperienced players at the table. They are enjoying themselves much more than we are since it is so new and exciting to them. I don't want to burst their bubble in any way - I want to help that bubble last as long as possible. It is wonderful to see inexperienced players truly feeling every pot they play, and riding an incredible rush of excitement during a hand. I am jealous of them in many ways, because I will never get that same rush and joy from poker again. You only get those feelings when you are just starting.

I remember about five years ago I was playing in a cash game and there was an APAT tournament going on in the casino. There were hundreds of players and they were all loving the game so much. You could tell that at least half the field had been looking forward to this tournament for weeks, and that they were feeling every moment of it right now. They had butterflies in their stomachs every time they played a pot. Whenever someone got knocked out the entire room would give them a round of applause. I thought this was wonderful. But some of the players at my table were laughing at this, and making snide remarks about how silly these guys were to be getting so excited for a 50 quid tournament. This was mean-spirited and hugely lacking in understanding of what poker is really all about. I told the table they were all mean buggers and to stop looking down their noses at others: "These guys are enjoying their poker more than any of us have enjoyed playing for years. You should be envying them, not laughing at them."

Part of your job as a poker player is to sustain a game that allows inexperienced players to experience the thrill of playing poker as intensely and joyfully as possible. You don't need to 'give sick action' to do this. Neither do you need to 'pal them up'. All you need to do is to be pleasant at the table, and to do nothing at all that might reduce the enjoyment of your fellow players. If you act well at the table then whenever you see a newer player truly enjoying himself and experiencing the full excitement of poker, then you can think to yourself "My presence at the table is contributing to this game running, and thus to this player having a game to play in. This means I played a small part in allowing this person to feel the intense joy and excitement that he just felt when he played that pot." Even if you have not directly caused that player's enjoyment it is still great to know that you are playing a small part in the pleasure he is having, just through you taking a seat at the table. And, apart from anything, it is wonderful and self-affirming to watch anyone experiencing true joy.

great post and agre 100% wpwp