Which Line is Best???

[PathFinder]

Full Tilt Poker Game , NL Hold'em - 4000/8000 Ante 1000 - 23:37:31 WET - 2013/06/05 [18:37:31 ET - 2013/06/05]
Seat 1: JohnBoyWWFC (240,450)
Seat 2: HERO (169,391)
Seat 3: Naslund44 (383,108)
Seat 6: TheOrca23 (85,460)
Seat 8: vip_1985z (324,828)
Seat 9: Denis Djalalov (227,418)
JohnBoyWWFC antes 1,000
HERO antes 1,000
Naslund44 antes 1,000
TheOrca23 antes 1,000
vip_1985z antes 1,000
Denis Djalalov antes 1,000
JohnBoyWWFC posts the small blind of 4,000
HERO posts the big blind of 8,000
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [   ]
Naslund44 folds
TheOrca23 folds
vip_1985z raises to 16,000
Denis Djalalov folds
JohnBoyWWFC folds
HERO calls 8,000
*** FLOP *** [     ] (Total Pot: 42,000, 2 Players)
HERO checks
vip_1985z has 15 seconds left to act
vip_1985z bets 18,734
HERO calls 18,734
*** TURN *** [     ] [ ] (Total Pot: 79,468, 2 Players)
HERO bets 24,000
vip_1985z raises to 56,000
HERO has 15 seconds left to act
HERO folds
Uncalled bet of 32,000 returned to vip_1985z
vip_1985z mucks
vip_1985z wins the pot (127,468)

VILLAIN IS PLAYING 27/17/13 STEAL:25 FT3B:78 over 107hands

Firstly my thought process:

PREFLOP: I call in the BB getting great odds with a hand that can hit alot of semi bluff flops where i can put maximum pressure on Villian with a variety of Flop textures. I decided against 3 betting as i didnt wish to 3bet fold with my stack and i didnt think he would fold enough times for it to be worthwhile

FLOP: Great flop and my plan was to chk/raise get it in with an open ender and bd flush draw, plus i might have a pair out. Like an idiot (possibly??) i changed my mind and decided i was going to see if i could hit a spade/straight or pair then look to chk/raise all in on turn.

TURN I lead turn for 2 reasons, 1. he might bet too much on the turn for me to call and try hit the river so i wanted to dictate the price. Secondly and the main reason for leading turn was that i was going to shove 95% of rivers if he just flats the turn bet which i can think should get through considering the board and Villians Range. Unfortunately he raises me here meaning both plans go out the window and unfortunately i have to fold.

So my question is which is better??

a) Just fold pre
b) 3 bet preflop
c) chk/raise all in on flop
d) donk flop and get it in
e) donk flop and if called, donk turn
f) chk call flop, chk call turn

Other suggestions are welcome but these are the ones off the top of my head. I dont think my line is the nut worst as i had a plan on the river but my line didnt work, so any constructive suggestions are welcome

[theprawnidentity]

I don't really love the flat pre, but don't hate it either.

If we'e going to be flatting this hand pre (with a 20bb stack) then we should be 100% looking to get it in on this flop imo.

[lucky_scrote]

You're playing 20 bigs with big antes so there isn't much room for manoeuvre but you've got amazing odds. I think jamming pre is great/better given the stack sizes and his CO open. Oh yeah and you got a sexy lil Ts8s don't forget.

Post flop this is just perfect to check jam. You've got 8 outs and a backdoor FD at worst and the pot is 63k once he bets. Your jam will be 144k more with 82k in the pot so it's not an over-jam at all.

[PathFinder]

I might be over thinking this, but isn't our range a little weak when chk/raising all in on this particular board? We don't rep sets or 2 pair due to how dry it is. We can get away with repping J10/JQ and KJ but our range has a lot of middle pairs and draws. Maybe I'm giving villian too much credit in making this read what you reckon??

[Tom_W]

Maybe your original line is already the best line.

The deeper the stack depth the more apt I am to take your line. Betting the river if he just flats the turn.

Anyway flatting pre is fine. I would probably check raise the flop. I would prefer to be shallower.

[PathFinder]

Maybe your original line is already the best line.

The deeper the stack depth the more apt I am to take your line. Betting the river if he just flats the turn.

Anyway flatting pre is fine. I would probably check raise the flop. I would prefer to be shallower.

Date Registered:   October 06, 2005, 12:32:52 AM and 26posts.

Good to see I've attracted you back

[outragous76]

Im not going to advocate peeling the BB to often, but periodically itll be fine (vs specific villains)

Now we have flopped the effective bojangles, its a trivial C/R all in. We should have a tonne of equity when called, and he can easily fold out smaller pairs putting us on QJ type hands.

[pleno1]

Pre flop is a super easy call and ripping flops where we flop equity.

Flop is trivial c.jam

[outragous76]

Pre flop is a super easy call and ripping flops where we flop equity.

Flop is trivial c.jam

You calling 100% pre or villain dependant?

[Tom_W]

Maybe your original line is already the best line.

The deeper the stack depth the more apt I am to take your line. Betting the river if he just flats the turn.

Anyway flatting pre is fine. I would probably check raise the flop. I would prefer to be shallower.

Date Registered:   October 06, 2005, 12:32:52 AM and 26posts.

Good to see I've attracted you back

Anything for you.

[wazz]

Think we have to (at least) call 100% vs all opponents.

I like c/cing flop and then c/fing this turn, depending on how aggro our opponent is. If he's very aggro and barrels the turn a lot I think a turn c/r works very well. This is a decent turn to c/r as it looks too obvious for it to be a draw, but rather looks like we have a QJ or A9-type hand.

[TL900]

reshove pre vs this villian with those stats because hes opening a decently high % and with the stacks the way they are his calling range will be very tight so we have alot of FE and is alot easier than needing to flop something, vs a tighter guy/someone who doesnt r/f alot calling is fine/the best play I don't think there should be a "standard" here in a vacuum its very read/hud dependant imo.

If I call I'm c/r calling the flop as we just can't play turns well enough.

As played I think I like c/f the turn on this card pretty bad for him to be barrelling and I don't think we have much FE with a c/j. If he checks back we win on basically all rivers that he doesnt improve on, would prob check give up an A river stabbing all others.

[pleno1]

Pre flop is a super easy call and ripping flops where we flop equity.

Flop is trivial c.jam

You calling 100% pre or villain dependant?

i need a reason not to call pre flop. if somebody is raise folding a lot then sure.

[stato_1]

reshove pre vs this villian with those stats because hes opening a decently high % and with the stacks the way they are his calling range will be very tight so we have alot of FE and is alot easier than needing to flop something, vs a tighter guy/someone who doesnt r/f alot calling is fine/the best play I don't think there should be a "standard" here in a vacuum its very read/hud dependant imo.

If I call I'm c/r calling the flop as we just can't play turns well enough.

As played I think I like c/f the turn on this card pretty bad for him to be barrelling and I don't think we have much FE with a c/j. If he checks back we win on basically all rivers that he doesnt improve on, would prob check give up an A river stabbing all others.

This nails it for me

[dakky]

what's the buyin?