Syria

[kinboshi]

So the US have decided to up their involvement by providing more arms to the opposition/rebels in light of the evidence that the government have used chemical weapons on its people.

Well over 100,000 have been killed in this civil war, and hundreds of thousands made homeless and fleeing as refugees to neighbouring countries.

Should the west get involved by providing weapons, or should they intervene with an actual presence of troops?  We intervened in Afghanistan, Iraq and Sierra Leone.  We didn't with Rwanda, and for years we didn't intervene in Bosnia (whilst Bosnians were being slaughtered by Serbian forces).  What makes one civil war different to another in terms of whether the west intervene.  The fact that the Russians are on the side of the government in Syria is probably a major factor as well. 

I've heard 'expert' commentators say that this uprising is merely part of a larger 'war' that is coming between Sunni and Shia across the whole of the Middle East.  Saudi Arabia and Qatar are funding the war, yet we don't seem to be doing anything as far as they're concerned.

When I say 'we' I mean the UK, the US, the UN and the West in general.  Obviously, these wars affect us, and there's also the 'duty' to protect the innocent people in Syria and elsewhere from being slaughtered. Do we sit back and watch them die, or do we intervene?

[Woodsey]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[EvilPie]

Personally I think we should concentrate on getting the UK sorted out first but I won't be complaining whatever happens.

You can talk about this stuff 'til you're blue in the face but it won't change a thing.

[Laxie]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[outragous76]

part of a larger 'war' that is coming between Sunni and Shia across the whole of the Middle East. 

stand well back

[Karabiner]

Hezbollah is the militia currently winning the war back for Assad's "government" since they entered the war in Syria a few months ago, and they are substantially backed by Iran.

Any Western intervention in what is perceived to be the Sunni v's Shia confrontation could have dire cosequences.

[TommyD]

While the movie 'Charlie Wilson's War' is mostly Tom Hanks fluff, the actual story of Charlie Wilson and the Soviet/Afghan war is very interesting and shows the positives and the disastrous negatives of funding rebel forces in a foreign state, especially if you pull the funding of the infrastructure, education, sanitation, food, shelter etc and just throw money at people who want guns, power and to rule.  We'll probably make the same mistakes yet again here.  As always.  When media attention goes away from a problem it doesn't mean the problem isn't there, but Western governments don't see poll points in unexposed tragedy.

I've heard 'expert' commentators say that this uprising is merely part of a larger 'war' that is coming between Sunni and Shia across the whole of the Middle East.  Saudi Arabia and Qatar are funding the war, yet we don't seem to be doing anything as far as they're concerned.

The first part I can see being true.  It's been coming for a while.  Obviously religion and creed is being used on both sides by select people who want power and control, seeing the deaths of others as needed collateral damage.  It has been the way for millennia.

The second part does fascinate me.  The West seem desperate to not offend at least four Middle East and Asian countries (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Israel and obviously China).  For at least the first three there are clear links to influential people in those countries and to the top end of US Government past and present.

I don't think any of the Western countries, even if we all pulled together (which has proven to be a political impossibility historically and I see no sign that can change) have the resources to effect a full and positive change all the way through to the end game.  Money, tanks and possibly troops will be thrown at the problem.  Another ten to the penny leader will take over, be declared the country's saviour.  The problem will be announced fixed.  Credit will be claimed.  And the real problems will still be there and the innocent people will still be fucked, just a postponed fucked.

[titaniumbean]

religion lol

[Woodsey]

We need to stay the f*ck out of this. Its Shias v Sunnis again. Getting in the middle of it is akin to a do gooder getting in the middle of a vicious husband/wife argument where they both turn round n have a go at the do gooder.

I also like to think if the rats metaphor from Skyfall. Leave em to it and mop up the pieces when they're done I say.

Any excuse to avoid work   

[kinboshi]

We need to stay the f*ck out of this. Its Shias v Sunnis again. Getting in the middle of it is akin to a do gooder getting in the middle of a vicious husband/wife argument where they both turn round n have a go at the do gooder.

I also like to think if the rats metaphor from Skyfall. Leave em to it and mop up the pieces when they're done I say.

...and the innocent people being slaughtered?  Same as what happened in Rwanda and Bosnia for several years before we got involved.

Not saying the answer is for military intervention by the West, but standing by and watching the murder of innocent men, women and children isn't right, is it?

[TommyD]

We need to stay the f*ck out of this. Its Shias v Sunnis again. Getting in the middle of it is akin to a do gooder getting in the middle of a vicious husband/wife argument where they both turn round n have a go at the do gooder.

I also like to think if the rats metaphor from Skyfall. Leave em to it and mop up the pieces when they're done I say.

...and the innocent people being slaughtered?  Same as what happened in Rwanda and Bosnia for several years before we got involved.

Not saying the answer is for military intervention by the West, but standing by and watching the murder of innocent men, women and children isn't right, is it?

This.  You can also can Cambodia and Zimbabwe to that list IMO.  The problem isn't intervening, it's intervening in the wrong way.  To ensure stability in a foreign country it requires vast amount of investment in the infrastructure, resources, troops, a plan to be counted in decades rather than years and a combination of wisdom and dumb luck to find a just, fair and capable provision government.  The West have the resources, but lack the cooperation or inclination to do any of this.

[leethefish]

I really would like to see what geo thinks on this ?

[kinboshi]

Lee, Assad is backed by extremists. His regime was also ridiculously over the top in terms of how they dealt with the protests in the early days. Hardly a moderate response bombing civilian neighbourhoods.

Using chemical weapons doesn't really change things, but it does show a lack of humanity in no uncertain terms.

[AndrewT]

Obv Assad is a bellend, but the rebels have many arseholes as well.

[kinboshi]

Obv Assad is a bellend, but the rebels have many arseholes as well.

Agreed. Which is why arming them is surely the nut worst strategy?