Legalities / copyright question?

[millidonk]

So I tried to buy one of these at the beginning of the month for my dad's 50th bday,



(http://www.notonthehighstreet.com/intwine/product/personalised-1963-memories-print)


After I tried to order it, it said they weren't taking any orders until 20th June.. it is now saying not available until 25th June.. (his bday was on the 13th so I am well late already..) I couldn't be bothered waiting any longer so decided I would try and make one myself.

Click to see full-size image.

Reasonably happy with my effort and actually enjoyed doing it. Now I plan to do one for myself and the little one but it got me thinking what are the legal implications should I do this on a larger scale and sell them on?

Both the font and the images used in the original designer's work are commercial license free meaning anyone can use them. obviously there is no issue with the actual historical content of the piece so I think it just leaves her overall design in general? anyone got a clue? I have had a google but can't find an exact bit of legislation that would apply to something like this.

Cheers.

[celtic]

Don't know the answer, but impressive copy.

[Jon MW]

The original retailer would have intellectual property rights to the design, I would suspect they would have to make an effort to sue you for it because I would 'suspect' they never bothered with the hassle of legal technicalities of trademark/copyright/whatever - but they'd win if you did it like that because it's such an obvious copy.

You wouldn't have to change it much to make it ambiguous enough to 'get away' with it though.

[Waz1892]

It's a bunch of numbers on a background, so I'd guess, far from an expert, but change the colours and don't then it's a direct copy.

They don't own the numbers/content, just potentially the design.

Think of supermarkets changing slightly the design of a food product ever-so-slightly

Must be the same sort of thing?!!

[kinboshi]

If the original artist/seller is a member of an organisation called ACID, then they will carry out the legal side of things on their behalf.

Also, where would you sell? You wouldn't be able to get them on Notonthehighstreet or on Etsy, as the original seller would be able to stop you from selling a design identical to theirs. So that'd leave you with eBay or your own site maybe?

[millidonk]

The original retailer would have intellectual property rights to the design, I would suspect they would have to make an effort to sue you for it because I would 'suspect' they never bothered with the hassle of legal technicalities of trademark/copyright/whatever - but they'd win if you did it like that because it's such an obvious copy.

You wouldn't have to change it much to make it ambiguous enough to 'get away' with it though.

Cheers Jon.

I figured if there was any chance that I could get sued then I would inevitably get thrown all over the gaff.

Sounds like you are right about they probably haven't bothered as it seems they don't have to:

it is not necessary for a work to have an explicit copyright notice for it to be copyrighted.[1] It is also not necessary for copyright in a work to be registered; this simply makes it easier to be compensated in court. Without an explicit dedication to the public domain, assume that it is still under copyright.

http://www.wikihow.com/Avoid-Copyright-Infringement

Waz, that's what I thought, the colour is free to use, the font is free to use, the facts are free to use and I'm pretty sure this designer isn't the first person to ever put words within numbers or other words.. I think if I make a few tweaks here and there I should be ok. btw i'm not dumb enough to sell anything with a legit trademark on, especially Disney, would be in prison within the week

All seems very grey, it's as if they can be bothered to do something they will probably win if you haven't made any effort to be different but if you have then you will probs get away with it.

Boshi, would just sell to friends in person or over fb etc as I probs know circa 100 people who would want one, obv nothing serious and wouldnt want to generate too much heat.

Maybe should delete this thread. 

[Jon MW]

...
All seems very grey, it's as if they can be bothered to do something they will probably win if you haven't made any effort to be different but if you have then you will probs get away with it.
...

If you 'make' anything original you own it.

The grey area comes in when other people make things very similar to it, you'd be unlikely to have a problem if it was only ever done in a word of mouth kind of way (I would have thought).

...
Maybe should delete this thread. 

lol I did think of something like that

But then I thought it would be quite interesting to see how the court case went if they did sue you 

[redsimon]

Dunno answer but was also born in 1963, are they personalised and easy to make? Might get one

[millidonk]

Dunno answer but was also born in 1963, are they personalised and easy to make? Might get one

obv you get N!T discount, second ccustomer already.. wiiiii, theoretically very customisable and comes in A3 on high quality canvas..

Live blonde update thread of my court case? probs have more chance of winning that than a poker comp post 2010.

Gonna do a 2012 one for my lil girl next week, will change it and see if people think it's far enough away from the original so I can get making some pennies.

[kinboshi]

If you sell them on here, you're unlikely to get into any trouble.

[Graham C]

One of our suppliers recently made a trophy very similar to the World Cup but apparently as long as there were 9 differences between the original and what they produced it was considered not in breach of copyright.  Whether or not that's what is correct I don't know but it's what I was told.   Worth looking into and if it's as simple as that, just come up with your own font for the numbers and you'll be fine. 

[millidonk]

One of our suppliers recently made a trophy very similar to the World Cup but apparently as long as there were 9 differences between the original and what they produced it was considered not in breach of copyright.  Whether or not that's what is correct I don't know but it's what I was told.   Worth looking into and if it's as simple as that, just come up with your own font for the numbers and you'll be fine. 

ooh, will defo look into that. Cheers silo.  Had a deece idea, which if It is actually doable could be good, will certainly have more than 9 changes, anyway.

Thanks for the advice guys, muchos appreciato.

[millidonk]

Stopped being an outright thief and let the creative juices start flowing, knocked up a few basic templates for outlines, the inside would pretty much be the same as mine but with all possible copyright infringements removed such as Daleks, Disney and X-Men.

Click to see full-size image.

Click to see full-size image.

Click to see full-size image.

Click to see full-size image.

Click to see full-size image.

(source images are license free from Pixabay.com)

Surely these are far enough removed from the original to not be put in the slammer? I have made a lot more than 9 changes on all of them.

Anyone of the opinion I would still have a law suit on my hands should I try and sell any like this in the future?

[ZZZZZZZROPE]

nice copy in the original post. do you use adobe illustrator?

[millidonk]

nice copy in the original post. do you use adobe illustrator?

I use Photoshop for pics & After effects for video. Never used illustrator before but with some of the vectors i come across I wish I did.