Stars $33r FT - 4b/f spot

[Pinchop73]

This is the first hand from the FT of Saturday's $33r.

I will more than likely be viewed as solid/aggro, I've put villain in two really horrible coffin's so far in this comp and he's tank folded both times.

UTG is Austria's no1, ranked 28th in the world. we've been having a might battle leading into the FT, not meaning it to be a brag or w/e but I've come out on top, just.

The 3baller Villain is also a big winner, whose been active on the the other table 2tables out (was keeping an eye on it 15 out), but doesn't seem particularly competent and I've made him take some questionable decisions.

I felt this was a really decent spot to 4b/f, as I felt UTG was opening super wide, BananaMama knows this and i felt he had a decently wide 3b/f range, and that he'd only ship with KK+ considering ICM, couldn't see him flatting much at all due to SPR, didn't seem like the clever type to flat JJ and stack off.

Such a small part of his 3b/c range calls on the flop, thoughts?

PokerStars Hand #101666181823: Tournament #760009590, $30+$3 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVIII (1250/2500) - 2013/07/20 23:33:12 WET [2013/07/20 18:33:12 ET]
Table '760009590 2' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: jamerOK (49148 in chips) out of hand (moved from another table into small blind)
Seat 2: HighTimesSwe (123335 in chips)
Seat 3: Ultraballs18 (140373 in chips)
Seat 4: young_diam18 (127498 in chips)
Seat 5: ibluffheaps (94121 in chips)
Seat 6: RasA86 (51393 in chips)
Seat 7: shteddy (60103 in chips)
Seat 8: BananaMama79 (83495 in chips)
Seat 9: LaurisL91 (124534 in chips)
HighTimesSwe: posts the ante 250
Ultraballs18: posts the ante 250
young_diam18: posts the ante 250
ibluffheaps: posts the ante 250
RasA86: posts the ante 250
shteddy: posts the ante 250
BananaMama79: posts the ante 250
LaurisL91: posts the ante 250
HighTimesSwe: posts small blind 1250
Ultraballs18: posts big blind 2500
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ultraballs18 [ ]
young_diam18: raises 2500 to 5000
ibluffheaps: folds
RasA86: folds
shteddy: folds
BananaMama79: raises 7500 to 12500
LaurisL91: folds
HighTimesSwe: folds
Ultraballs18: raises 11000 to 23500
young_diam18: folds
BananaMama79: calls 11000
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Ultraballs18: bets 60000
BananaMama79: calls 59745 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (255) returned to Ultraballs18
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ultraballs18: shows [ ] (two pair, Queens and Eights)
BananaMama79: shows [ ] (three of a kind, Queens)
BananaMama79 collected 174740 from pot

[pleno1]

Think its a very bad hand to do it with.


Value - We have 88 vs utg and mp 3bet, getting it in would be terrible

Bluff - We can just choose much better hands to bluff with, broadways and Ax hands, if were 4betting 88 were just 4betting too many combos imo.

[TL900]

Think its a very bad hand to do it with.


Value - We have 88 vs utg and mp 3bet, getting it in would be terrible

Bluff - We can just choose much better hands to bluff with, broadways and Ax hands, if were 4betting 88 were just 4betting too many combos imo.

ye all this

[rfgqqabc]

I don't hate it. People seem really frisky, and from an outsiders perspective I feel like we can achieve a big edge in these fields by being really really solid, and letting everyone else get into these massive levelling wars. I agree with pleno its not quite in our value range, however it is just short, so this really can't be that bad. Once we get to the flop I'd always bet like 18k and call it off. You said he can only ship KK+ due to ICM, is this really true? Especially if he expects us to be wider than "standard" maybe even significantly so.

Could I ask what program you use for this sort of work? I'd need to make a final table first but it could come in useful one day

[pleno1]

It's very shot from being in v range

[rfgqqabc]

It's very shot from being in v range

Without trying to sound like an arse. Prove it? ICM makes it so?

 edit: I guess getting in with AQ> 88/99 here?

[Pinchop73]

Pads where's the haart! Different scenario completely I know, but, 99's we're in your stack off range vs an utg open and an MP 3b just last week?

I think this is a really sweet spot to put villain in, and (not to be results oriented) I think what he shows up with and how he played it highlights this.

Just a shame about the flop

[pleno1]

Pads where's the haart! Different scenario completely I know, but, 99's we're in your stack off range vs an utg open and an MP 3b just last week?

I think this is a really sweet spot to put villain in, and (not to be results oriented) I think what he shows up with and how he played it highlights this.

Just a shame about the flop

Didn't I have 20ish bud. You have over 50 effective.

As I said if you are going for value I think it's way too fkn thin as their gii ranges will be v tight.

I you're doing it as a bluff because they will fold a lot cool, wte but you've chosen a bad hand to do,it with.

[BALOTELLI9O]

A disastrous spot to bluff. Its not really the spot, its your hand. You have decided to take a hand like 88 and turn it into a bluff, because if either guy gives you action you have to fold right? If thats the case you are turning your 88 into 23o. It has no blocker/card removal value and seen as you put the two villains into what most of the time should be a reshove/fold spot its post flop playability counts for nothing.

As for the actual flop, alarm bells are ringing big time here. He 3bets a raise UTG and cold calls a 4bet committing about 30% of his stack. I don't see any hands in his range where he folds this flop ever.

[pleno1]

I'd also say the non premium hands he peels per flop would be kqs and aqo/s if the flop came t2t I'd be more likely to go with it as played.

[dwayne110]

A disastrous spot to bluff. Its not really the spot, its your hand. You have decided to take a hand like 88 and turn it into a bluff, because if either guy gives you action you have to fold right? If thats the case you are turning your 88 into 23o. It has no blocker/card removal value and seen as you put the two villains into what most of the time should be a reshove/fold spot its post flop playability counts for nothing.

As for the actual flop, alarm bells are ringing big time here. He 3bets a raise UTG and cold calls a 4bet committing about 30% of his stack. I don't see any hands in his range where he folds this flop ever.

All A-K combo's that didn't want to commit pre due to the 4-bet (see Alex Goulder 104 page thread, lol), pocket and - admittedly if he played either hands like this I wouldn't like it, but possible. Bit too definitive to say he's never folding the flop ever imo. Coldcalling 4-bets can often be 'mistakes' given pot-stack ratio with hands players don't want to stack off with yet don't want to lay down.

[The Squid]

I don't agree the hand is the equivalent of 23o because as demonstrated we do get peeled sometimes.

Pinchop what hand he's peeled do you see him folding on this flop that is better than 88?

[Pinchop73]

He doesn't have one single combo that he folds which is better. He also doesn't call anything that is a severe dog.

The only hand that he conceivably calls with, that I'm ahead of, is AKs/AKo.

The reason I jammed was because (rightly or wrongly, way more wrongly) I surmised that the only hands he'd 3b then peel were QQ's and AQo+, and with that flop I could only surmise that with card removal he could only realistically have AK which I wanted to pay the price to try realise it's equity.

I post what I have felt to be the hands I have played the very worst in PHA, this obv being one of them. Fairly pointless posting hands I feel I have played perfectly in my opinion, I get nothing from doing so apart from massaging one's ego.

[The Squid]

Of course mate. I don't judge you for the hand at all.

[Pinchop73]

Ha, didn't mean it to sound like I'd taken it to heart or whatevs! Like I've said, I'm actively looking for criticism as these are my 'D'oh!' hands.

Felt like a right tit when he snapped my arm off