Another ruling thread

[Vinodh]

Hi Mods, please feel free to move this post to any other relevant thread if required.

Last night at DTD mini deepstack. Level 1, I am sharing the table with Red Dog. I am in the mid position with AQ, folded to me , raised to 250. Cutoff is a young guy who 3 bets to 700, folded back to me, I call ( Pot 1550). Flop Q9Q rainbow. I check, he bets 1100, after a  bit of dwell, I call ( Pot 3750). Turn 6. I check, he checks. River another 6. Now, after 25 secs, I picked up a 5k and 1k chip and put it across the line ( which I think consider as a bet of 6k). Cutoff says call and just put 1500. I immediately turned my hand over. Now, cutoff says he just wanted to call 1500, now that my hand is exposed. Dealer called the TD. TD's ruling was: I only get the 1500 and the cutoff serves one round penalty.
Is this correct? Shouldn't I get another 4500?

[david3103]

Very surprised that you didn't get the full 6k.
Did the dealer announce the bet size?

[Vinodh]

Unfortunately the dealer didn't announce the bet size David. As everyone knows I have deliberately put 6k into a pot of 3750, I assume even the dealer thought that my bet was valid and didn't think of announcing it.

[FUN4FRASER]

Very surprised that you didn't get the full 6k.
Did the dealer announce the bet size?

This...

Is there something we are missing ? DTD are normally on the ball and cant see a reason why it shouldnt be the full 6k (even accounting for the massive river over bet)

[outragous76]

I can only assume that the TD has given the villain the option to fold

[Ironside]

The guy should of had to put 6k in pot I have no idea who made the ruling but think either there is more to this or they need to explain it or everyone is going to start angle shooting

as told very bad ruling

[FUN4FRASER]

I can only assume that the TD has given the villain the option to fold

At what stage Guy ?

[FUN4FRASER]

The guy should of had to put 6k in pot I have no idea who made the ruling but think either there is more to this or they need to explain it or everyone is going to start angle shooting

as told very bad ruling

As told I agree ....so thats why I asked are we missing something...normally more to these things

[outragous76]

I can only assume that the TD has given the villain the option to fold

At what stage Guy ?

After he puts in 1500 and then sees the winning hand. I'm just trying to think as to why he isnt forced to call.

Especially as it is very en vouge to call river all ins by flicking in 1 chip at the moment

[CHIPPYMAN]

Who's the TD take makd this decision . Ifs the bet is 6k and is called, the he gets 6k . Simple as that .

[doubleup]

hmmm its obv reasonable that he thought your bet was 1500 rather than the large overbet.  There is a rule that covers this kind of thing in nl games:

 Because the amount of a wager at big-bet poker has such a wide range, a player who has taken action based on a gross misunderstanding of the amount wagered needs some protection. A bettor should not show down a hand until the amount put into the pot for a call seems reasonably correct, or it is obvious that the caller understands the amount wagered. The decision-maker is allowed considerable discretion in ruling on this type of situation. A possible rule-of-thumb is to disallow any claim of not understanding the amount wagered if the caller has put eighty percent or more of that amount into the pot.

Example: On the end, a player puts a $500 chip into the pot and says softly, “Four hundred.” The opponent puts a $100 chip into the pot and says, “Call.” The bettor immediately shows the hand. The dealer says, “He bet four hundred.” The caller says, “Oh, I thought he bet a hundred.” In this case, the recommended ruling normally is that the bettor had an obligation to not show the hand when the amount put into the pot was obviously short, and the “call” can be retracted. Note that the character of each player can be a factor. (Unfortunately, situations can arise at big-bet poker that are not so clear-cut as this.)

[Vinodh]

I can only assume that the TD has given the villain the option to fold

At what stage Guy ?

After he puts in 1500 and then sees the winning hand. I'm just trying to think as to why he isnt forced to call.

Especially as it is very en vouge to call river all ins by flicking in 1 chip at the moment

Yes Guy! You are right. exactly after he puts in the 1500. How its right that he has the option to fold after seeing the winning hand???

[FUN4FRASER]

I can only assume that the TD has given the villain the option to fold

At what stage Guy ?

After he puts in 1500 and then sees the winning hand. I'm just trying to think as to why he isnt forced to call.

Especially as it is very en vouge to call river all ins by flicking in 1 chip at the moment

I understand.....assuming there was nothing wrong with the 6k bet though it appears then that the TD has let the guy off for his own mistake ( basically not paying attention )

[tikay]

hmmm its obv reasonable that he thought your bet was 1500 rather than the large overbet.  There is a rule that covers this kind of thing in nl games:

 Because the amount of a wager at big-bet poker has such a wide range, a player who has taken action based on a gross misunderstanding of the amount wagered needs some protection. A bettor should not show down a hand until the amount put into the pot for a call seems reasonably correct, or it is obvious that the caller understands the amount wagered. The decision-maker is allowed considerable discretion in ruling on this type of situation. A possible rule-of-thumb is to disallow any claim of not understanding the amount wagered if the caller has put eighty percent or more of that amount into the pot.

Example: On the end, a player puts a $500 chip into the pot and says softly, “Four hundred.” The opponent puts a $100 chip into the pot and says, “Call.” The bettor immediately shows the hand. The dealer says, “He bet four hundred.” The caller says, “Oh, I thought he bet a hundred.” In this case, the recommended ruling normally is that the bettor had an obligation to not show the hand when the amount put into the pot was obviously short, and the “call” can be retracted. Note that the character of each player can be a factor. (Unfortunately, situations can arise at big-bet poker that are not so clear-cut as this.)

Good balance there.

There is no doubt that the Hero has SOME culpability here. It is wrong to automatically assume (I am aware of the modern fashion which Guy mentioned, but it is not enshrined in the rules afaik) ) that when the guy chucked 1,500 in, he was calling the full bet. Always best to clarify first, & we must accept SOME responsibility here. I bet 6,000, is that a 6,000 call?

All a bit unfortunate really, but no big deal. The blame is not wholly with the villain &/or the TD, imo.

[outragous76]

I can only assume that the TD has given the villain the option to fold

At what stage Guy ?

After he puts in 1500 and then sees the winning hand. I'm just trying to think as to why he isnt forced to call.

Especially as it is very en vouge to call river all ins by flicking in 1 chip at the moment

Yes Guy! You are right. exactly after he puts in the 1500. How its right that he has the option to fold after seeing the winning hand???

Again I'm no rules expert, but I'm envisaging that he is allowing villain to act as thou your hand isn't exposed