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Belly Buster
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« on: August 26, 2013, 02:20:52 AM » |
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This happened tonight in the £20 tourney at DTD
On a flop of 234:
Player 1 goes all in
Player 2 calls
Player 3 calls
Turn is a 5 - still betting on the side.
Player 2 check folds to Players 3's bet.
Player 3 turns over an Ax to show a straight.
At this point player 1 throws the cards at the muck. The cards touch the muck but are still identifiable, and turned over to show 97.
The dealer then deals a river 6.
What is the ruling in this situation.
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theprawnidentity
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2013, 03:27:59 AM » |
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If the cards were retrievable common sense would say the hand should stand?
Seems a bit weird that a guy wouldn't get to showdown when he was all in already....
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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 04:20:38 AM » |
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If the cards were retrievable common sense would say the hand should stand?
Seems a bit weird that a guy wouldn't get to showdown when he was all in already....
This but I wish he got his hand killed tbh. |
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[21:05:17] Andrew W: you wasted a non spelling mistakepost?
[21:11:08] Patrick Leonard: oll
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david3103
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 09:26:25 AM » |
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If the cards were retrievable common sense would say the hand should stand?
Seems a bit weird that a guy wouldn't get to showdown when he was all in already....
This but I wish he got his hand killed tbh. I'm sure you do.... |
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It's more about the winning than the winnings
5 November 2012 - Kinboshi says "Best post ever on blonde thumbs up"
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RikTee
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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 10:39:15 AM » |
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This happened tonight in the £20 tourney at DTD
On a flop of 234:
Player 1 goes all in
Player 2 calls
Player 3 calls
Turn is a 5 - still betting on the side.
Player 2 check folds to Players 3's bet.
Player 3 turns over an Ax to show a straight.
At this point player 1 throws the cards at the muck. The cards touch the muck but are still identifiable, and turned over to show 97.
The dealer then deals a river 6.
What is the ruling in this situation.
Had this before at DTD, granted was a while ago but the ruling was if they touch the muck then the hand is dead (as it was his he mucked his cards but they didn't touch the much so he was allowed to have them back and claimed the pot  ) R. |
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Boba Fett
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 11:19:58 AM » |
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Surely hand should be dead? Being easily identifiable and retrieved from the muck should only be done from dealer error IMO.
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Ya gotta crawl before ya ball!
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Belly Buster
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 11:49:28 AM » |
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Well the hand was ruled dead. The thing is that I said it should play but some loudmouth know-it-all said it should be mucked, and convinced the floor of this before I had I had a chance to put my side forward.
As I am not a regular there so I didn't push the issue but I was not a clear cut decision in my mind - especially when I check the rules afterwards and it says "9. Face Up- All cards will be turned face up once a player is all-in and all betting action is complete."
I think it is poor "ruling" as it opens up some chip dumping angles as well, as well as possibly being unfair on the other players. Personally I would want someone who tries to fold a free draw to the virtual nuts having the chips.
BB
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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2013, 04:30:36 PM » |
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If the cards were retrievable common sense would say the hand should stand?
Seems a bit weird that a guy wouldn't get to showdown when he was all in already....
This but I wish he got his hand killed tbh. I'm sure you do.... do you feel like I should have awarded you the pot? I open myself up pretty hard if so seen as no one else in the casino would have done the same for me. In fact I have done the same in a side pot and had another regular openly laugh in my face. At least i looked sheepish. |
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[21:05:17] Andrew W: you wasted a non spelling mistakepost?
[21:11:08] Patrick Leonard: oll
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Tal
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2013, 04:46:03 PM » |
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Touch muck = hand dead
Don't see why the hand needed to be turned over. Not like the player had his cards stolen by the dealer. Appreciatethere is still a card to come, but the cards belong to the muck now. They no longer have value.
PEOPLE OF POKER! KNOW WHEN YOU HAVE OUTS!!
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"You must take your opponent into a deep, dark forest, where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one"
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Magic817
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2013, 04:50:48 PM » |
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If the dealer makes an error then it makes sense to take the cards out of the muck if they are known.
If a player does it and they would have won then its their fault. A couple of times players have mucked winning hands by mistake (Ivey and Laak come to mind). Laak during the 48hr cash game and Ivey mucking a flush in WSOP (I think). It is the players responsibility to pay attention and their fault if they muck a winning hand.
If wrong doing is suggested then that's a one thing but in this example I just think a player didn't know his outs and that's his fault and he should learn from it for the future
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Belly Buster
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2013, 04:52:55 PM » |
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Belly Buster
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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2013, 05:01:00 PM » |
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Having looked at that hendon mob dicsussion I'm satisfied that that I had a legitimate point here, and the know-it-all guy who spent most of the tourney moaning about the players in the £20 comp wasn't so right after all.
Anyway I've exceeded my quota of 0.001 posts per day - see you next year.
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dik9
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« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2013, 05:24:00 PM » |
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Something isn't right here.
If it is down to 2 players before the river was known all cards should be on their backs? It is then out of the hands of the player and their cards cannot be killed unless by a dealer?
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Cardroom Manager, Genting International Casino, Resorts World Birmingham
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celtic
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« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2013, 05:31:00 PM » |
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Something isn't right here.
If it is down to 2 players before the river was known all cards should be on their backs? It is then out of the hands of the player and their cards cannot be killed unless by a dealer?
There was betting on the flop or turn, then one guy folded and the all in threw his cards in the muck, before the river was dealt. I think. |
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Keefy is back  But for how long? |
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dik9
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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2013, 05:33:02 PM » |
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Dealer should be shot then. As soon as a player is all-in only the dealer should kill the cards in a tournament.
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Cardroom Manager, Genting International Casino, Resorts World Birmingham
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