Deep super lively live 5/5 PLO 4/5/6 card game

[77dave]

Game is short handed and lots of action, plenty of wobbling going on.

This hand is 4 card hero is on the button. All hands straddle for 10 some 20.

5 hand. Ufg folds 

Hero has £1425 playing

   

Hero raises to 40

Sb calls with similar stack. BB folds

Devil fish playing 3k in the straddle makes it £125. Hero calls as does SB.

Flop is   

SB check DF bets 200 into 380 pot. Hero calls, SB calls. Pot now 980.

Turn comes  . SB checks DF bets 300. Hero shoves for £1100

We are asking what frequency do we get our shove through. How likely is it that SB has a house or trips.
Is DF likely to call with just an overpair. What is our equity against DF range at this stage?

[Killerkilsby]

Just fold and move on imo. Bottom pair on a paired board facing aggro with 2 oppos still in.

Anyways as played. Def at least one has a ten, more than likely devilfish and i dont think he folds it. Expect this to get through >5% of time

[paulhouk03]

Where r these doc/ Omaha games

Fold flop?


Horrible spot to call with naked ten here for sb

Depends on game flow n if sb is in the hole/ degen / rich

[77dave]

Sb is in for 500 and winning  DF is stuck a bunch

[AlexMartin]

doubt df is light ott 3way on worst card in the deck, doubt turn ever goes uncalled, good 10's have nearly the right price against nuts. Is flop standard?

[SuuPRlim]

I'd 4b preflop vs a stuck Devilfish with this stack.

I think we need to be deeper to call the flop too, with someone else to act as well. If you are £2.5k deep I love floating the flop here with the perfect hand for it. If you're £4k  deep I'd be raising! God PLO is such fun :-)

As played turn shove is alrite actually, over a 300 bet size although its a little spews, problem is Devilfish plays these types of spots very well so he'll call off AA with diamonds etc so you get him of naked OPs and bluffs only.

I think we can raise the flop actually here or fold. Calling not so good with this stack.

[77dave]

I'd 4b preflop vs a stuck Devilfish with this stack.

I think we need to be deeper to call the flop too, with someone else to act as well. If you are £2.5k deep I love floating the flop here with the perfect hand for it. If you're £4k  deep I'd be raising! God PLO is such fun :-)

As played turn shove is alrite actually, over a 300 bet size although its a little spews, problem is Devilfish plays these types of spots very well so he'll call off AA with diamonds etc so you get him of naked OPs and bluffs only.

I think we can raise the flop actually here or fold. Calling not so good with this stack.

Dave can you help me out with some of the maths to show if the turn shove is a +ev move

[Skippy]

No help, but 4cardhero is a great screen name for someone.

[chnren]

Just fold and move on imo. Bottom pair on a paired board facing aggro with 2 oppos still in.

Anyways as played. Def at least one has a ten, more than likely devilfish and i dont think he folds it. Expect this to get through >5% of time

If all players play ACB game, life would be so easilier.......

[SuuPRlim]

I'd 4b preflop vs a stuck Devilfish with this stack.

I think we need to be deeper to call the flop too, with someone else to act as well. If you are £2.5k deep I love floating the flop here with the perfect hand for it. If you're £4k  deep I'd be raising! God PLO is such fun :-)

As played turn shove is alrite actually, over a 300 bet size although its a little spews, problem is Devilfish plays these types of spots very well so he'll call off AA with diamonds etc so you get him of naked OPs and bluffs only.

I think we can raise the flop actually here or fold. Calling not so good with this stack.

Dave can you help me out with some of the maths to show if the turn shove is a +ev move

Sure. On a train ATM but as soon I get to odds oracle il give it a go, we need a betting and a calling range for Devilfish to work it out exactly though, to determine how often he calls.

Problem we have with this spot is we're in very bad shape vs calling ra ge, we'd rather him have Txxx than AA with diamonds ofc.

[chnren]

I'd 4b preflop vs a stuck Devilfish with this stack.

I think we need to be deeper to call the flop too, with someone else to act as well. If you are £2.5k deep I love floating the flop here with the perfect hand for it. If you're £4k  deep I'd be raising! God PLO is such fun :-)

As played turn shove is alrite actually, over a 300 bet size although its a little spews, problem is Devilfish plays these types of spots very well so he'll call off AA with diamonds etc so you get him of naked OPs and bluffs only.

I think we can raise the flop actually here or fold. Calling not so good with this stack.

Hi, dave, i agree 4bet pre is better probably, actually i didnt think about it when i was in the hand, thanks.(this is the hand i played actually, i asked 77dave to post it for me), personally i think raising on the flop is fine too, but will be get called a lot by devilfish, so it is not the best decision, with position, i think calling is better, i can always c the turn and make better decision after they act, saying turn is or etc, cards that i can bluff, turn 4 j q a, all goods for me, will be more happier, i mean with a pair and 2 back door flushing draw, fold 200 in 380 pot bet is not good , which i totally disagree with you,(even any k on the turn is not too bad for my hands) ,i got so many cards to hit that i can go for it. I m 100% agree that if we are little bit deeper, raising would be better than calling. Tbh, i put devilfish on kkxx hand, since we got a q j, he got aa chance is slightly lower, he could have run down cards as well, but the way he bets , betting size is exactly telling me he got kkxx, 300 bet is protection betting size here rather than others reasons, also betting 300 can find out where he is, well i believe a lot plo players do this kind of bet a lot anyway. Back to the turn, when devilfish bet 300, i count my chips, i got 1100 left, which is about the size that devil fish able to fold, (obv if i got less stack, i ll never raise here), so i decision to go for it, esp 3 ways, he more likely gonna believe me, i mean i pick up nut flush draw here, even any1 of them called me, life cant be too bad though. (if sb got two pair or set, he wont flat us with his stack).............as the result, sb passed, devilfish showed kk and passed(he thinks for a while). 77dave and me question here is not how we gonna play this hand(different players play different way, or better way than me), it is my turn -shove,is it EV+ or not. how often sb would have naked ten and check turn, how often would devilfish have naked ten, how often would devil fish call my bet with kkxx etc. I need help with mathmatically inclined, with the syntax. Many thanks

[chnren]

doubt df is light ott 3way on worst card in the deck, doubt turn ever goes uncalled, good 10's have nearly the right price against nuts. Is flop standard?

hi alex, it is dc allen here from luton:), long time no c, when will u come to g again.

[SuuPRlim]

OK. I didnt realise we had the NFD, was on my ipad on the train when i posted before lol!

I think turn shove is good and actually I like the way you played it. However I think i'd prefer to FOLD the flop, than call with this soecific stack depth, we've gotten a little lucky here that we've turned THIS specific turn card and can ship with some FE on a lot of turn cards DF can just bet/go with it and we wont have much Fold equity, a little deeper and i love calling, i really do.

I wouldn't mind raising the flop but I can't find an amount to raise too where I wouldn't wanna call it off, I think pot/calling is better than raise/folding this flop but its a little messy which is why I think we should prolly fold. I actually still don't hate floating the flop even now, and theres a decent chance I'd do the same sometimes but I think if we're being completely strict folding the flop is slightly better than calling.

[GreekStein]

I have never played vs Devilfish and I think I'd need to know more about his game and sb to decide what I think of the turn shove. I keep kinda changing my mind on it but I'm certainly not in love with it.

I think maybe we have to once we call the flop but I really don't like the flop call.

Pre is fine imo.

[SuuPRlim]

I think it's a pretty clear 4bet pre-flop vs a stuck Devilfish myself. Good thing is he never really has a boat so we're not drawing dead, he still has pretty much all his AA and KK combo's in his range on the turn from Pre-Flop so plenty of flexibility in his range. Problem with the maths is we do pretty badly vs his calling range once we jam, I'm not surprised he folded naked KK and AA but he;d call those hands with diamonds in them I'm pretty sure.

I think maybe we have to once we call the flop but I really don't like the flop call.

Yeh.