HUD Stat Question

[theprawnidentity]

Just looking at my graph for the zoom games I am playing and I notice that my Won Without Showdown line is a pretty constant downward slope over 15k hands.  Could anyone give me any pointers as what kind of leaks this would indicate?

I understand this is a really broad question, just after a nudge in the right direction.

[PathFinder]

The most logical answer would be that you fold/give up too much in pots. If you build your ranges effectively you should be able to barrel more often on boards. Be more effective if you could post hands where your put money in preflop and fold on the turn or river and we can look at your range when getting to this street and where your hand fits into your range.

Thin Brag but ive managed to have a positive red and blue line over 10k hands [ ] good sample

[SuuPRlim]

A negative NSD line is not nessercarily a bad thing btw, some styles and in some games its correct to lose at NSD. Over the last 100,000 hands Ive played in PLO I'm small losing at NSD but I believe for the games I've been in thats been the correct strategy.

But yeh general indicators of a negative NSD linee as pathfinder said not barrelling enough, also maybe not value-betting thin enough on rivers as quite a bit of NSD winnings o actually come from un-called VBs. Also the SB is a classic spot to leak NSD money.

[AlexMartin]

search function on 2+2, complicated. all that matters is green line.

[theprawnidentity]

Im making like 4bb/100 according to my EV line which I can't be too unhappy with 4 tabling zoom for the first time in my life.

Will have a look at my sb stats and post, I am 100% sure my sb / bb play will be terrible.

Edit: Can't work out how to get the graph to just show my sb line, but from the overall stats it shows that I am making a profit from the sb.  In fact, I made more money from the sb than I did from the button and EP :/

[pleno1]

mine used to be very good but not im not a station its terrible.

[theprawnidentity]

I'm getting torn apart in the bb though.  Probably need to defend wider from lp raises and by the looks of it my aggression frequency is far lower than any other position.  Probably something i can work on.

[pleno1]

I'm getting torn apart in the bb though.  Probably need to defend wider from lp raises and by the looks of it my aggression frequency is far lower than any other position.  Probably something i can work on.

what do you mean by tore apart? its maybe not as bad as you think. you can close the action in the bb a lot more than in other positions thus aggression is normally lower.

[theprawnidentity]

Wording used was maybe a bit inflammatory.  Like -30bb/100.

[PathFinder]

Did you filter the big blind so it only shows when you voluntarily enter the pot rather than just posting the BB and folding?

[pleno1]

Wording used was maybe a bit inflammatory.  Like -30bb/100.

thats not too bad.

[pleno1]

mine used to be very good but not im not a station its terrible.

to expand


PokerStars Zoom Hand #105491453317:  Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2013/10/14 18:53:43 CET [2013/10/14 12:53:43 ET]
Table 'Aenna' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: pads1161 ($234.09 in chips)
Seat 2: krissyb24 ($201 in chips)
Seat 3: Tobolsk NL ($256.85 in chips)
Seat 4: circle123 ($223.93 in chips)
Seat 5: elgranjulili ($88.79 in chips)
Seat 6: TurinWND ($114.73 in chips)
krissyb24: posts small blind $1
Tobolsk NL: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pads1161 [ ]
circle123: folds
elgranjulili: folds
TurinWND: folds
pads1161: raises $2 to $4
krissyb24: folds
Tobolsk NL: calls $2
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Tobolsk NL: checks
pads1161: bets $6
Tobolsk NL: raises $12 to $18
pads1161: calls $12
*** TURN *** [ ] []
Tobolsk NL: bets $32
pads1161: calls $32
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
Tobolsk NL: bets $82
pads1161: folds
Uncalled bet ($82) returned to Tobolsk NL
Tobolsk NL collected $106.20 from pot
Tobolsk NL: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $109 | Rake $2.80
Board [ ]
Seat 1: pads1161 (button) folded on the River
Seat 2: krissyb24 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Tobolsk NL (big blind) collected ($106.20)
Seat 4: circle123 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: elgranjulili folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: TurinWND folded before Flop (didn't bet)


on the river, usually people would call and thus their blue line go down and red line no effected. now if we fold, our green line improves (hopefully!!) but our red line goes down (100 or so) and blue line isnt effected.

makes sense?

[theprawnidentity]

Yeh I understand why they go up / down.  Was just thinking in a public environment about possible things I'm doing in my game that make my won without showdown line seemingly so bad (having seen a couple of graphs where this line goes up I assumed that there was a serious leak).

Perhaps after some evaluation of various points its not as terminal as I thought if the overall green / yellow lines are heading in the right direction.

[SuuPRlim]

show me ANYONE anywhere near even in the SB and BB over big sample and I'll show you someone who's been dealt an un-godly amount of very good hands in the SB and BB, You're not really sposed to win from there.

MY strategy from the blinds now has become a contained/defensive one, its about losing as little as possible as opposed to trying to win

[teamonkey]

show me ANYONE anywhere near even in the SB and BB over big sample and I'll show you someone who's been dealt an un-godly amount of very good hands in the SB and BB, You're not really sposed to win from there.

MY strategy from the blinds now has become a contained/defensive one, its about losing as little as possible as opposed to trying to win

i'm not a v good player at all, and i like to read a lot of these PHA threads and try to understand what is said, which mostly i dont, but the above quote, esp the bolded part, really strikes me as being very important

sorry for the derail, but thanks for the advice (although not directly aimed at me)