im going to get some stick for this

[pleno1]

villain is a good aggro reg. thoughts on turn?

PokerStars Zoom Hand #105743426661:  Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2013/10/19 22:25:28 CET [2013/10/19 16:25:28 ET]
Table 'Aenna' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: pads1161 ($710.67 in chips)
Seat 2: bodgik77 ($207.79 in chips)
Seat 3: OMGdreams ($229.30 in chips)
Seat 4: kenchambon ($403.92 in chips)
Seat 5: jak_paist0r ($572.11 in chips)
Seat 6: madmanco6 ($79.86 in chips)
bodgik77: posts small blind $1
OMGdreams: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pads1161 [ ]
kenchambon: folds
jak_paist0r: raises $2 to $4
madmanco6: folds
pads1161: raises $8 to $12
bodgik77: folds
OMGdreams: folds
jak_paist0r: raises $22 to $34
pads1161: calls $22
*** FLOP *** [ As ]
jak_paist0r: bets $28
pads1161: calls $28
*** TURN *** [ As ] []
jak_paist0r: bets $147
pads1161: raises $148 to $295

[pleno1]

rheres 127 in pot on turn btw

[muckthenuts]

How do you expect he'll respond with Axdd hands?

[pleno1]

i dont think he has any ax hands in his range at all so im not concerned how he responds with them.

[muckthenuts]

i dont think he has any ax hands in his range at all so im not concerned how he responds with them.

Aha does this mean you're inducing?

[Oxford_HRV]

i'd love to find out villain called with 89 haha, looks  pretty cool/good! would you say his betting line looks like a really unbalanced bluff thats why you re raise all in?

[NEWY]

i dont think he has any ax hands in his range at all so im not concerned how he responds with them.

I am out of my depth but do find it fascinating. Cud u please help me to understand and explain ur thought process as to why u don't think he has ANY Ax hands? Cheers

[pleno1]

ok my perceived range.

aq, ak, aj


a5s, a3s, a9s, a7s

88-99-tt-jj-qq-kk-

89s, t8s, j8s

qt ss jq ss kq ss etc


so my range at the moment is pretty much the above, id call them alll otf and probably 3b-call them pre flop this deep.

None of this range is incredibly strong and almost 200bb deep its very unlikely im going to stack off


Potential value hands in villains range that beats my bluffcatchers


AA - makes no sense to bet so big (overbettng turn) i will fold my entire range except sets that will call turn and rivers anyway and he blocks alot of my hands from a combo pov

AK - very likely i fold aq and worse with this sizing as im going to shrug and not want to commit 200bbs (as calling turn in his eyes will make me commit as im calling an overbet)

22 - he will never 4bet this pre flop

88 - he will never 4bet this pre flop and i block it from combos pov

a8 - unlikely because of my 8 blockers and we doubt hed use this as a overbet because i will fold my entire range

Ax that beats 8x - he would usually either check call vs my random backdoor floats or hed bet a normal value size, betting so big would be a clear valuecut.

So with my range looking INCREDIBLY weak and the chances of him having a value hand are just so slim, however as we said before when we call turn its very unlikely that he will choose to bluff the river as we look like were commited with a very strng hand and have commited a lot to the hand and looks like were calling down, so if his river bluffing frequency is very low we dont need to worry about gto (if we think he has air then we can jsut call call right?) but if hes never going to bluff river then we should try to protect against 6 outs OR a likely bluffing hand like Q8,J8,K8 that blocks a set and stops us losing on river when we check check when he either has 8x and beats us or hits a 2nd pair with qj,kj,kq etc.

That was my reasoning at least.

[AlexMartin]

find it interesting you would have a turn raising range

does his 4b bluff range not contain a bunch of ax where x=suited wheel hands (or employs a mixed strategy)

[GreekStein]

I like it so its pbb horrid xD

[NEWY]

As if u say he will NEVER bluff river if u call turn overbet because it looks so strong why not do exactly that and call with a view to betting any river he checks and folding to any bet as that would NEVER be a bluff. Out of interest how would u play turn if u had AQ.  Like I said I really interested in ur thoughts as ur 1 of the few I think make sense and explain thought processes with reason. Thanks for reply.

[pleno1]

As if u say he will NEVER bluff river if u call turn overbet because it looks so strong why not do exactly that and call with a view to betting any river he checks and folding to any bet as that would NEVER be a bluff. Out of interest how would u play turn if u had AQ.  Like I said I really interested in ur thoughts as ur 1 of the few I think make sense and explain thought processes with reason. Thanks for reply.

I mentioned it I'm my post already but I think it's one f the few spots where we should protect on the turn because if he's never bluffing river, never has us bet then the only thing we are concerned about is him improving to 2 pair and winning or sometimes hitting some kind of pair and for whatever reason not folding. Raising makes the hand easier to play now.

[pleno1]

aq becomes a super easy call because we dont need to protect vs anything.

[AlexMartin]

i have decided you are way too smart for me to talk poker with anymore. this hand makes my head explode and iv looked at it over 10 times.

[pleno1]

i have decided you are way too smart for me to talk poker with anymore. this hand makes my head explode and iv looked at it over 10 times.

whats your general feeling right now, after full evaluation and looking voer the hand, if you get to the turn as we do whats your action and why?