Another PLO hand.

[SuuPRlim]

GAME #5187379083: Omaha  PL £3/£6 2013-10-19 22:43:37
Table Gladbeck
Seat 1: SnakeBlood69 (£1,241.10 in chips)
Seat 5: LostInBatCountry (£609.00 in chips)
Seat 6: dmiankk (£616.60 in chips) DEALER
Seat 8: Mazaruni (£299.05 in chips)
Seat 10: Lil Dave (£636.00 in chips)
Mazaruni: Post SB £3.00
Lil Dave: Post BB £6.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Lil Dave [    ]
SnakeBlood69: Raise (NF) £18.00
LostInBatCountry: Call £18.00
dmiankk: Call £18.00
Mazaruni: Call £15.00
Lil Dave: Call £12.00
*** FLOP *** [    ]
Mazaruni: Check
Lil Dave: ...

OK tricky one this. The game is going berserk, it was really deep but about 5 hands ago there was a big 3way all-in where LostInBatCountry and dmiankk got £1200 in each and lost, so fair to say its all kicking off.
SnakeBlood is a very lose/spazzy/weaker player
LostInBatCountry is a good(ish) reg but absurdly lose and completely off his lid post-flop
dmiankk is pretty loose/passive with some huge blows in him
Marazuni is a pretty nitty/boring reg rarely ever actually plays usually sat out.

I think we can assume pretty confidently that if we squeeze everyone is going to call, I can raise to £108 so will be £540 in there and we'll have £480-520 back to bet, in theory I should be able to make it £108 and it goes call call call Mazaruni ships it in and i can ISO, but he really isn't the sort to do that, with this in mind I elected to just call as I'm going to have to close my eyes and pray on the vast majority of flops vs 20 very wide cards and people will be VERY gambly post (this isn't actually a good thing for our hand as post-flop folds are where we'd make the most of our money from the squeeze, people being forced to fold hands with good equity because there is 2-4 players behind, I think people in this game at this time are just gonna get anything half decent in)

With this in mind, would anyone still ISO pre-flop, as we're going to have a very easyhand (albeit pretty high variance!)

As for the flop what is everyone doing? I'm not exactly sure whats best to do here.

[Oxford_HRV]

happy inflating the pot pre, i be making it ~50 (clicking RIT) hoping to set up a 5b shove. i think this hand isnt strong enough to pot bet from BB, it doesnt really flop comfortably vs 4 ppl would have to be a nine min preferably another face card to 108 it pre flop.

two choices for me then on the flop, either betting 75 and going with it or i can analyse turn hopefully < 3 handed
                                                     or lead for 25 and expect to go 5 ways to the turn

[SuuPRlim]

Hi mate, thanks for the reply

One thing though, making it smaller with worse ACES and bigger with better ACES when it's multi-way is kinda worrying, you have to consider not just the immediate value of the situation (i.e your hand vs their ranges etc) but the playability of the hand postflop, for example;

We make it £108, we have under a PSB back on the flop and we have a pretty easy post-flop decision, we either go all-in, or we fold check-fold (you could obviously mess about on some board textures with better £112 and calling, but on the vast majority of boards we're gonna wanna be ALL-IN because we'd prolly quite like to take it down there and then) obviously the problems here is that everyone in the hand is going to assume we have AA** and play their hands accordingly, i.e if it comes A83 and they have QJT8 they will fold, and ot if comes 468 then they will get it in etc so people are going to be playing pretty well vs us post-flop and we're going to be closing our eyes and hoping for the best, but we'll have a profitable ALL-IN quite often so as steessful as the hand might end up being it's pretty straight forward for us and hard to make any massive mistakes.

Now, if we make it £50 and it goes 5 way (which it very likely will) then there will be £250 in the pot and £550-£600 back in stacks and a short stack with a PSB back, this is going to be a very difficult SPR to play 5ways OOP with a totally face up range. This is where you can get into real trouble, if you're going to make it £50, then IMO you're much better off flatting the £18 and effectively set-mining, but a very deceptive set-mine and one where you're VERY likely to get another bet, also have a NFD and the AA can be a very strong bluff catcher.

The interesting point though is the £50 to induce a 4bet, this was ALL the rage about 2 years when people started 3betting really small OOP and I always thought "well obviously dont have ACES and was getting all sorts of KK/AKQ* hands in against them, everyone clued onto it though and stopped but recently I experimented with it and seems to be working again so there might be some serious merit in that in this spot.

In general though if you're sizing your 3bets based on the strength of your hand then you could very easily run into trouble.

You would bet/go with it OTF? I think this is a pretty good option actually, obviously folding if it goes multi-way but in a real insane game I think can get it in quite good sometimes here. I ended up checking, it checked through and the turn was a 9 so i c/f

[Tal]

This is a reasonably dry flop, so what are the merits in leading sizeably to try to thin the field? Otherwise, we c/f a lot of turns multiway.

Say we bet 60. How would you expect the hand to play out?

[Oxford_HRV]

The interesting point though is the £50 to induce a 4bet, this was ALL the rage about 2 years when people started 3betting really small OOP and I always thought "well obviously dont have ACES and was getting all sorts of KK/AKQ* hands in against them, everyone clued onto it though and stopped but recently I experimented with it and seems to be working again so there might be some serious merit in that in this spot.

In general though if you're sizing your 3bets based on the strength of your hand then you could very easily run into trouble.

You would bet/go with it OTF? I think this is a pretty good option actually, obviously folding if it goes multi-way but in a real insane game I think can get it in quite good sometimes here. I ended up checking, it checked through and the turn was a 9 so i c/f

I was suggesting a smaller sizing due to your descriptions of villains, it seemed HOPEFUL to induce a 4b, i frequently 3b small OOP with a ton on hands, so my range wouldnt be so face up, i only POT with very strong hands OOP, also i dont think you will frequently have a PSB making it 108, you should get one fold at least a hella' lot of the time!

yeah i'm always going to bet the flop here most likely for 75 and going with it HU or 3 ways with the shorty, and bet calling/f turn doesnt seem good unimproved i always end up check folding lol

[GreekStein]

I just check fold here

[Skgv]

As played check folding is fine IMO but I wouldn't mind a cheeky lead out on flop to see what happens as ur hand is disguised. That actually is a tough line up and I think if the game is calm then 3 betting would get a lot of respect but I think you have to mix it up wt so really close to stacking off by being aggressive pre or playing it the way you have. In hindsight with that flop if not all of them called pre ur hand would be good most times.