Omaha advise please

[suzanne]

Not played omaha much and very much still learning but been trying to improve on DTD cash tables (for points).

Sorry but hand history didnt store so having to type out manually.

4 handed 0.25/0.10, I am on the button. I raise to 0.85 with  , sb calls, bb reraises to £3.40, I call sb folds.

Flop is  , bb bets £10.20, I call

Turn is 

My thinking at this point is that with the reraise preflop he probably had AAxx KKxx? and is ahead. He then bets £30.60.

Is it wrong to call here with an over pair to the board (obv no good but might hit) and nut flush draw?

River was a  so I folded.

[doubleup]

You seem to have been playing quite deep 200bs??? 

I would prob have raised on the flop.  Even if he has a very unlikely set, you aren't in bad shape.

Button vs a 3 betting BB is a spot you that you want to put maximum pressure on when you hit good draws and made hands. 

[BorntoBubble]

Not sure how deep you are id probably be raising flop also possibley follding pre but i can be a bit of a nit sometimes pre. Just because i dont 100% know what im doing so try and play tighter to make it easier post flop.

Not sure if its correct or not to get it in on this turn when we are drawing to a dimond or a 9 probably possibley an A if he has KK but unlikley. Dont think he would bet as much with a Set as he has no fear of the draw now.

Will wait for the omaha pros to rubbish my response

[GreekStein]

We really need stack sizes to comment on this one. The correct decision on the flop with 100bbs could definitely vary if you had 400bbs for example.

Assuming not so deep I'd usually raise flop to realise our equity and make him fold out his.

[suzanne]

I had sat down with £30 and had £78 when this hand accurred, mateyboy sat with £50 and had £55 so he is happy to get the lot in where as I like to play more small ball as I dont have the roll to be playing these.

He had done this a couple of times previously with big bets on the turn and I had folded which made me think he might be pushing me out the pot.

I was tanking on the turn and he said in the chatbox "your diamonds are no good". Is he really reraising with 33, 44, 88? It just didnt make sense betting so big if he had it.

He only had £10 left so the only option is to call/fold. Was it wrong to make the call?

[SuuPRlim]

So effective stack at the start of the hand is £55 right?

Pre-flop is pretty close imo, I think if you think the SB will call (which tbh he will do most of the time, and it will go 3way then calling here pre-flop is ok. TBH though I think I'd prefer to just fold pre-flop, this hand plays a lot better with deeper stacks (multi-way or HU doesnt really matter with a hand like this) but against a 3betting range it actually does pretty badly even with kinda deep stacks we have kinda bad reversed implied odds here (we can flop a FD and just bomb it with a decent chunk of FE but it's pretty rare we get it in more than 35%)

OTF We have to just ship it in, as it happens he's bet full pot so seemingly going to call all the time we go all-in but like Cos says by shoving we do have SOME fold equity (huge win for us when he folds) and we get to see the last two cards with some very clean outs. Stuff I'd wanna call the flop with is stuff like 8xxx, 34xx, where we can induce some ALL-IN's on the turn from him with a range we dominate, and could consider folding some turns with kinda venerable hands. Hands like this one with little immediate showdown value but strong enough equity (inimum 35% vs ANYTHING pretty much) plays so much better just to jam, this is the kind of board that hits both ranges fairly equally so he should have a fair few combo's of hands (the weakest parts of his range here) that he'll fold to a shove.

You're absolutley right when you sy he prolly doesn't have a FH OTT, most likely hand is just an overpair, but if he has an OP with diamonds (AKKx with blues etc - which is pretty likely) then we're in bad shape, we have two 9's which are very hidden outs aswell but for a pot bet he's completely committed so we really don't have the price to call.

PLO is really about folds and fold equity when you very rarely find yourself in situations where you're a really dominating equity favorite you win so much money by getting people to fold out equity, which is why strong and aggressive play always works better over a more passive/trying to hit hands style.

[suzanne]

Yes £55

He said afterward that he had KK44 and if this is correct he was never folding to a shove but as I said I am more interested in whether I played the hand badly.

Thank you for your help everyone, next time I will shove and close my eyes  

[suzanne]

So effective stack at the start of the hand is £55 right?

Pre-flop is pretty close imo, I think if you think the SB will call (which tbh he will do most of the time, and it will go 3way then calling here pre-flop is ok. TBH though I think I'd prefer to just fold pre-flop, this hand plays a lot better with deeper stacks (multi-way or HU doesnt really matter with a hand like this) but against a 3betting range it actually does pretty badly even with kinda deep stacks we have kinda bad reversed implied odds here (we can flop a FD and just bomb it with a decent chunk of FE but it's pretty rare we get it in more than 35%)

OTF We have to just ship it in, as it happens he's bet full pot so seemingly going to call all the time we go all-in but like Cos says by shoving we do have SOME fold equity (huge win for us when he folds) and we get to see the last two cards with some very clean outs. Stuff I'd wanna call the flop with is stuff like 8xxx, 34xx, where we can induce some ALL-IN's on the turn from him with a range we dominate, and could consider folding some turns with kinda venerable hands. Hands like this one with little immediate showdown value but strong enough equity (inimum 35% vs ANYTHING pretty much) plays so much better just to jam, this is the kind of board that hits both ranges fairly equally so he should have a fair few combo's of hands (the weakest parts of his range here) that he'll fold to a shove.

You're absolutley right when you sy he prolly doesn't have a FH OTT, most likely hand is just an overpair, but if he has an OP with diamonds (AKKx with blues etc - which is pretty likely) then we're in bad shape, we have two 9's which are very hidden outs aswell but for a pot bet he's completely committed so we really don't have the price to call.

PLO is really about folds and fold equity when you very rarely find yourself in situations where you're a really dominating equity favorite you win so much money by getting people to fold out equity, which is why strong and aggressive play always works better over a more passive/trying to hit hands style.

Just reread this again, what does FE mean please? Does it make a difference that we were 4 handed at the table? I know its not a great starting hand but it was one of the best I had had in a while which is probably why I was reluctant to fold.

[pleno1]

Fold equity.

[tikay]

Fold equity.

Can you explain the meaning of that please - that is what Suzanne needs to know, really.

[GreekStein]

Fold equity.

Can you explain the meaning of that please - that is what Suzanne needs to know, really.

Rather than explain it myself, I found this link which does a much better job. It's pretty simple and a good read for anyone curious

http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/mathematics/equity/fold/

[tikay]

Fold equity.

Can you explain the meaning of that please - that is what Suzanne needs to know, really.

Rather than explain it myself, I found this link which does a much better job. It's pretty simple and a good read for anyone curious

http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/mathematics/equity/fold/

Thanks Mr Conk, that is wonderfully explained.

I think it is often forgotten that not everyone understands stuff like this, or more precisely, what it is called, & why, especially social or recreational players.

So much of our profit or loss comes from understanding this absolute basic of poker.

It is second nature to the Pros, but not so much further down the food chain.

[GreekStein]

Fold equity.

Can you explain the meaning of that please - that is what Suzanne needs to know, really.

Rather than explain it myself, I found this link which does a much better job. It's pretty simple and a good read for anyone curious

http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/mathematics/equity/fold/

Thanks Mr Conk, that is wonderfully explained.

I think it is often forgotten that not everyone understands stuff like this, or more precisely, what it is called, & why, especially social or recreational players.

So much of our profit or loss comes from understanding this absolute basic of poker.

It is second nature to the Pros, but not so much further down the food chain.

I would have thought a TV ANAL-yst like yourself could have done a better job of explaining Fold Equity but nevermind, the schnozz has done it for you.

[tikay]

Fold equity.

Can you explain the meaning of that please - that is what Suzanne needs to know, really.

Rather than explain it myself, I found this link which does a much better job. It's pretty simple and a good read for anyone curious

http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/mathematics/equity/fold/

Thanks Mr Conk, that is wonderfully explained.

I think it is often forgotten that not everyone understands stuff like this, or more precisely, what it is called, & why, especially social or recreational players.

So much of our profit or loss comes from understanding this absolute basic of poker.

It is second nature to the Pros, but not so much further down the food chain.

I would have thought a TV ANAL-yst like yourself could have done a better job of explaining Fold Equity but nevermind, the schnozz has done it for you.

Ha, very good Mr Durante.

I doubt I could have explained it better, actually. Its one of those things like the Offside law in football, most of us understand it but struggle to explain it consisely.

And in shock news - for you at least - my appetite for Online PLO8 has been much re-awakened recently in a very odd way, it's only small-ball stuff, but I'm loving the experience &, shock horror, actually making a bit of money. Who'd have thunk?

[suzanne]

Ahh haaaa thank you Cos for the link which explains it so well.

Strangely enough I have been playing with FE (talking like a pro now) but didnt know what it was called and understood all of that