Penalty for flat calling nuts, last to act?

[david3103]

Uproar in Teesside as Latif bets 80% of his stack as the river card is dealt to complete a KQK7K board and is flat called by the young lad in Seat 10.

It is suggested, by Latif, that the pot should be awarded to him and that this is a Grosvenor rule?

Could someone clarify please?

[lucky_scrote]

It's considered soft play but it's usually punishable by a warning followed by round penalty or something.

Pretty difficult to enforce though, if someone is completely new to the game they might not realise what they are doing.

[tikay]

Not like Latif to cause uproar.

[Tal]

You can't win the pot when the other person has tabled the nuts.

TD discretion about a penalty. Generally, the embarrassment is enough of a penalty. If not, a one round penalty is hugely embarrassing. I'd estimate 95% of the time, it's an innocent mistake

[kinboshi]

Have seen someone do it at DTD in a comp, when the board ran out TJQxK and it was obvious they both had an Ace. The river was bet, raised, re-raised and then the other player just callled and said we're chopping.  They did, and then he had a round penalty.

[Tal]

Have seen someone do it at DTD in a comp, when the board ran out TJQxK and it was obvious they both had an Ace. The river was bet, raised, re-raised and then the other player just callled and said we're chopping.  They did, and then he had a round penalty.

Surely you've also played in comps where the two people are obviously chopping and then one turns over 89 and your jaw hits the floor?

[ruud]

I saw the same guy call with the nuts on the river twice in one orbit at DTD. The dealer gave him a friendly nudge the first time, and then an incredulous look the second time. That was as far as it went tho, which surprised me, but the player apologised profusely to be fair.

Common sense, as is the case with most ruling threads, should just prevail here.

[Honeybadger]

Stupid rule that should be abolished.

There can be valid strategic reasons for flatting (or not betting when checked to) the nuts, even when last to act on the river. The existence of these strategic factors makes this rule completely ridiculous.

[Honeybadger]

Also, lol at Latif. That guy is such a douche. As always with these types he is sort of likeable too, but he is still a scumbag.

[david3103]

I'm aware that penalties for soft play/collusion may apply, but the case made tonight was that the pot should be taken away and that this is a Grosvenor rule?

I wondered if anyone had seen it in operation or was better than me at finding said rules somewhere

Also, lol at Latif. That guy is such a douche. As always with these types he is sort of likeable too, but he is still a scumbag.

Agreed - although there are moments when he seems almost human

He's sat next to me, good job he can't read what I'm writing

[Tal]

Never heard the rule before. How you can have the best hand, not fold and not win is absurd.

Strategic reasons, HB?

[theprawnidentity]

Never heard the rule before. How you can have the best hand, not fold and not win is absurd.

Strategic reasons, HB?

For example on the bubble of a sit and go.  If you have a massive chip lead and there are big ICM factors it would be in your interests to keep the short stacks alive so you can use the situation to chip up and abuse the bigger stacks.

[lucky_scrote]

Never heard the rule before. How you can have the best hand, not fold and not win is absurd.

Strategic reasons, HB?

For example on the bubble of a sit and go.  If you have a massive chip lead and there are big ICM factors it would be in your interests to keep the short stacks alive so you can use the situation to chip up and abuse the bigger stacks.

Yup, it's quite fun doing this and really infuriating for everyone else .

[Tal]

Never heard the rule before. How you can have the best hand, not fold and not win is absurd.

Strategic reasons, HB?

For example on the bubble of a sit and go.  If you have a massive chip lead and there are big ICM factors it would be in your interests to keep the short stacks alive so you can use the situation to chip up and abuse the bigger stacks.

Right. There are other ways.

Just give a massive speech about how the other guy must have the stone cold nuts, then sigh really loudly, check your cards again, lean back, undo your bow tie (optional), shake your head, sigh again and declare "I'm all in!"

[The Camel]

99 times out of 100 the person screaming for a penalty in flare ups like this is the one doing the angle shooting.

For example, I have never seen anyone do a string bet to gain an edge.

Yet every time an experienced player calls out a newbie for a string raise they are doing it to save chips.