Cooler? Fold at any point? HU Hand

[shipitgood]

It's a hand from 20nl HU, we have been playing for about 15 minutes.

The player is the best player I've played HU against. He was really aggro, a lot more aggro than any player I've played against before.

He has been 3 betting a lot oop.

I open   to 50p, he re-raises to £1.60 i call, pot is £3.60 pre, maybe just 4 bet against this opponent? 4 bet small?

At the start of the hand i have just over £26, villain has £21.

 

Villian bets £2, love the bet sizing! Think it would be pretty bad 2 fold here, so i call. Pot is £7.60.

Turn,      

Not bad, really like this card.

Villian bets £4.80, again love this bet sizing by opponent. I know 100% i'm behind here, but with the draw to the nut flush guess i have to call. Pot is £17.20 once I've called. Maybe just jam here?

River is   , oppo jams i snap and he wins with a fh lol

Could i have played this different? Maybe jam turn, any shout for just folding pre?

[rfgqqabc]

I think this hand is far too weak to call the 3bet. Give me 75s or something! K9o seems like a decent hand to 4b/f. Had you tried minraising buttons vs this opponent? I'd 4bet to 3.5 probably. After you call I guess its all ok. We beat some hands and the hands we don't (JJ for example) will fold a decent amount of turns. Turn is pretty minging but we might be in front, Qx hands with spades might continue bluffing, same with JT one spade etc. These hands beat us but probably fold to a river bet.

Overall I'm struggling to comment on postflop, so much of it is just a "it depends". Preflop is a mistake, of that I'm fairly sure.

[pleno1]

definitely not "far too weak" kt would be a pretty std peel so k9 cant be "far too weak"

btw just fold pre as in dont play.

theres no nl20 game that can be plus ev to play, the sites fuck you over with the rake.

you will be paying something like 20bb-100 in rake or something insane.

if you want to play HU Id strongly suggest playing HU SNGs where the rake is at least managable-

[rfgqqabc]

definitely not "far too weak" kt would be a pretty std peel so k9 cant be "far too weak"

btw just fold pre as in dont play.

theres no nl20 game that can be plus ev to play, the sites fuck you over with the rake.

you will be paying something like 20bb-100 in rake or something insane.

if you want to play HU Id strongly suggest playing HU SNGs where the rake is at least managable-

You'd peel 75s though right? So now we're peeling everything! I don't think OP should peel K9o. I don't think I should.

[Honeybadger]

Against very aggressive 3bettors K9o plays much better in a 3bet pot than 75s.

Makes top pair innit.

[pleno1]

exactly yeah, suited connectors way way way overrated in hu games, they are actually better in 6max games.

top pairs and over cards ftw.

[Honeybadger]

Patrick, although I do agree with your conclusion that K9 is not 'far too weak' to be calling with, your logic for explaining this is not quite right.

Thinking of K9 as 'just one down from KT' or indeed 88 as 'just one down from 99' is the wrong logic. Granted, it will often get you to the right conclusion by accident, as it has here. But sometimes it will lead to incorrect logical leaps.

In fact, as you surely know, K9 might be many steps below KT in the spectrum of our range. This is the case whichever way you want to 'order' hands; whether it be hot and cold equity, playability, or postflop board coverage.

And in fact even hot and cold equities are sometimes transitive and dynamic. One example of this is that KJ sometimes plays better against a tight EP opening range than KQ - primarily because the opener will not have AJo in his range but will have AQo in his range.

It might seem a pedantic point, especially as I agree with your advice overall. But actually it can be quite important to correct these slightly flawed logical constructs. Besides, you know how geeky I am with the theory/maths stuff...

[pleno1]

i just expect eqr to be pretty similar with kt and k9

in position in HU hands that are of similar rank I think will never be that much different because equities wont be too dissimilar and EQR will be v similar.

 Equity Win Tie 
MP2  65.29%  63.80%  1.50% 66+, A8s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+
MP3  34.71%  33.21%  1.50% KTo



 Board:

 
 Equity Win Tie 
MP2  66.15%  65.28%  0.86% 66+, A8s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+
MP3  33.85%  32.99%  0.86% K9o


fwiw im not suggesting this is a normal 3betting range, just literally typed in open raise to equilab to compare vs two different ranges.

My post was all about HU though.

EQR I would imagine wouldnt be too much different between the two.

[pleno1]

so what i mean is there will never be too big a difference in decisions between hands of similar strength, ie k9 and tk, 88 and 99, a5 and a4, 98s and 87s, whilst i know they will have a difference (ldo right) i dont think they will ever be hugely different.

[shipitgood]

Thanks everyone.

RF I was min raising, and yeah he was 3 betting light. So I started 3 xing, instead of just min raising.

Unfortunately this time he had aces!

Hey Pleno! The rake at 20nl and above is 5%, think it's capped at a certain level.

Generally standard is really bad so it's profitable playing 20nl HU. Unless it's a nitty reg, or any reg really, that would be burning money!

[shipitgood]

This hand I did 2 x for some reason, I had started 3 xing (after about 10mins), must have reverted back to min raising.

[pleno1]

Thanks everyone.

RF I was min raising, and yeah he was 3 betting light. So I started 3 xing, instead of just min raising.

Unfortunately this time he had aces!

Hey Pleno! The rake at 20nl and above is 5%, think it's capped at a certain level.

Generally standard is really bad so it's profitable playing 20nl HU. Unless it's a nitty reg, or any reg really, that would be burning money!

if he is 3betting light then adjusting to a 3x strategy isnt good, we should just open tighter and-or call more 3bets and 4bet bluff more.

[Honeybadger]

Yeah was just about to post same thing. You should prefer to min raise vs competent and aggressive 3bettors and 3x it vs guys who flat a lot.

And yes as Patrick says, vs aggro 3bettors you should tighten up a little on your opens and widen your 4betting range.

Btw... Bet size and range construction work hand in hand. So if you are min opening then you can open a wider range than if you are 3xing.

[DMorgan]

Thanks everyone.
RF I was min raising, and yeah he was 3 betting light. So I started 3 xing, instead of just min raising.

If villain is 3betting a wide range then you should be minraising which will allow you to peel 3bets in position with a wider range and you'll be getting a better price on your 4bet bluffs

[DMorgan]

I'll get my coat