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Author Topic: couple omaha rivers, how much is everyone betting?  (Read 1265 times)
Oxford_HRV
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« on: January 25, 2014, 09:39:10 AM »

PokerStars Zoom Hand #110701943917:  Omaha Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50)
Table 'Aquarius Dwarf' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: stanimir8319 ($54.24 in chips)
Seat 2: HIDEROU ($62 in chips)
Seat 3: ahirani ($32 in chips)
Seat 4: VILLAIN ($48.47 in chips)
Seat 5: HERO ($52.55 in chips)
Seat 6: Mex-check ($46.38 in chips)
HIDEROU: posts small blind $0.25
ahirani: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [ ]
VILLAIN: raises $1 to $1.50
HERO: calls $1.50
Mex-check: calls $1.50
stanimir8319: folds
HIDEROU: folds
ahirani: folds
*** FLOP *** [ Two Diamonds]
VILLAIN: bets $3
HERO: calls $3
Mex-check: folds
*** TURN *** [ Two Diamonds]
lVILLAIN: checks
HERO: bets $8.25
VILLAIN: calls $8.25
*** RIVER *** [ Two Diamonds ] []
VILLAIN: checks
HERO:





PokerStars Zoom Hand #110702877981:  Omaha Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50)
Table 'Aquarius Dwarf' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: yakuni ($50 in chips)
Seat 2: HERO ($70.85 in chips)
Seat 3: VILLAIN ($133.94 in chips)
Seat 4: Kongimarko ($50 in chips)
Seat 5: Smudo217 ($34.30 in chips)
Seat 6: diffi ($40.08 in chips)
HERO: posts small blind $0.25
VILLAIN: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [ ]
Kongimarko: folds
Smudo217: folds
diffi: folds
yakuni: raises $0.75 to $1.25
HERO: calls $1
VILLAIN: calls $0.75
*** FLOP *** [ ]
HERO: checks
VILLAIN: bets $3.58
yakuni: folds
HERO: calls $3.58
*** TURN *** [ ] []
HERO: bets $8
VILLAIN: calls $8
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
HERO:


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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2014, 04:34:58 PM »

First hand;
First off I'd fold preflop, vs an UTG open, and UTG hands tend to be big pairs and broadway hands (KK, AA, AKJ9, AQJT and so on) and that does very well vs this hand, were gonna find ourselves dominated on a lot of flops and we can't really credibly attack the low flops either. Also now we've called we're very likely gonna pick the CO or the BTN up as well and this plays even worse 3way. We want hands that are gonna give us a chance to be aggressive post flop and this isn't really one.

Flop call, very standard - did you think about raising? The board is very dry, we block all bar 1 JJ combo our villain should be et have 555 or 222 (unless its AA55 or KK22 etc) v unlikely to have the wrap unless its AA34 so whereas he'll prolly call this streets raise we should have plenty of equity (all our 2pairs should be good) and very unlike to be raised here. I realise though when he folds we prolly had a decent equity edge over him but on a board like this when our calling range is so crammed of J*** idk how much more bluffing well get from him. Just musing here, call obviously fine/prolly best.

Turn, v standard.

River... This is actually pretty close for me, don't get me wrong I'd expect we have the best hand very often, but the flop is so dry that we don't have too many bluffing hands, if the flop was  Two Clubs then I'd bet for sure with your hand given we can be bluffing g with missed clubs v feasibly (and we have the ) but given that we have both j and 8 of the suit and its very unlikely from him opening UTG that he can have a 7 or 6 high flush (AA64 with 64diamonds only really) and he does have KK with K high diamonds and stuff In his range so it's really just KQ were trying to get called from. He doesn't even a e JT as he'd prolly bet the turn 100% (or c/r) I guess J9 he could have as well. Also it's not a huge concern but he can have some AA with naked  and bluff us.

Readless I'd check this back, obv if I had some reason to bet I'd go ahead and bet.

Hand 2;
Again I'd defo fold preflop - if it was dbl suited I wouldn't minnnd 3betting although I think we can find some better hands really, but I wouldn't call this even vs a BTN open, we're gonna be OOP flopping bad draws and weak pairs, again not really gonna be much opportunity to be aggressive with this hand post flop, and vs a BTN open who can pretty much rep anything on every board lol it's just sonars to play.

Flop is stnd (although its still a bit meh for us)
Turn I really like the lead, we can have plenty of bluffs (97 naked for e.g) and hell have some equity he.ll pot control with so plenty of value. Given we expect hi. To raise 9T decently often OTT this s a very easy vb I'd go big, $25~ You still have plenty of bluffs and he has lots of hands he could pick you off with. Like it post flop this hand. Fold to a raise, don't think he's bluffing most of his range is gonna be able to bluff catch and you are reaping 9T and very feasibly could have it pretty silly spot to randomly bluff.
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2014, 01:26:09 PM »

Agree with dave on pre, flop and turn hand 1; river i'd definitely bet, tho, what with action on all streets, the bdf is much less likely. If you were floating the flop you'd also be betting this turn and this river, ~$20 i think.

I agree with dave on hand 2, wouldnt bet as big otr as a default  but can see the merits.
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Oxford_HRV
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2014, 04:27:37 AM »

First hand;
First off I'd fold preflop, vs an UTG open, We want hands that are gonna give us a chance to be aggressive post flop and this isn't really one.

Flop call, very standard - did you think about raising? call obviously fine/prolly best.

Turn, v standard.

River... This is actually pretty close for me, don't get me wrong I'd expect we have the best hand very often, but the flop is so dry that we don't have too many bluffing hands, if the flop was  Two Clubs then I'd bet for sure with your hand given we can be bluffing g with missed clubs v feasibly (and we have the ) but given that we have both j and 8 of the suit and its very unlikely from him opening UTG that he can have a 7 or 6 high flush (AA64 with 64diamonds only really)

Readless I'd check this back, obv if I had some reason to bet I'd go ahead and bet.

Hand 2;
Again I'd defo fold preflop - if it was dbl suited I wouldn't minnnd 3betting although I think we can find some better hands really, but I wouldn't call this even vs a BTN open, we're gonna be OOP flopping bad draws and weak pairs, again not really gonna be much opportunity to be aggressive with this hand post flop, and vs a BTN open who can pretty much rep anything on every board lol it's just sonars to play.

Flop is stnd (although its still a bit meh for us)
Turn I really like the lead, we can have plenty of bluffs (97 naked for e.g) and hell have some equity he.ll pot control with so plenty of value. Given we expect hi. To raise 9T decently often OTT this s a very easy vb I'd go big, $25~ You still have plenty of bluffs and he has lots of hands he could pick you off with. Like it post flop this hand. Fold to a raise, don't think he's bluffing most of his range is gonna be able to bluff catch and you are reaping 9T and very feasibly could have it pretty silly spot to randomly bluff.

this edited quote is a lot of what i wasnt thinking of. e.g raising flop on hand 1

i know pre flop folding here is best, these were some pretty funky calls considering im 4 tabling zoom short stacking.

i like a lot of what you wrote super lim.

hand1 i badly missed taking the consideration that the only flush i'm beating was a 7 high and not being results orientated i still like half potting river because there is alot of AKQ KKQ type hands that havent flushed that may still call because i rep more splits and two pair hands otr. your explanation is spot on and agree so much i should probs check back readless

HERO bets $12.50
VILLAIN: calls $12.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
HERO: shows [ ] (a flush, Jack high)
VILLAIN: shows [three diamonds ] (a flush, Queen high)
VILLAIN collected $50.38 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $52.75 | Rake $2.37
Board [ Two Diamonds ]
Seat 1: stanimir8319 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: HIDEROU (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: ahirani (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: VILLAIN showed [three diamonds ] and won ($50.38) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 5: HERO showed [ ] and lost with a flush, Jack high
Seat 6: Mex-check folded on the Flop

Hand 2 i hear what you're saying about calling hands here like this. I do tend to call pretty light out of the sb but defend only the really good boards for my hand, this board is something i would consider to be at the bottom of my defend aswell, as stuff like J34r or suited i tend not to continue with.
i didnt decide to bet big as i couldnt see how i was getting called on the river if i went huge because i semi tanked flop call anyway, so after donking turn then river blanking off, i thought betting near pot he's gonna hero fold sets and ill only be getting called 100% by his 54 and noting else, not bothered about villain having 9T 'cus of flop bet and he didnt raise turn.

HERO: bets $5.75
VILLAIN: calls $5.75

*** SHOW DOWN ***
HERO: shows [ ] (a straight, Five to Nine)
VILLAIN: mucks hand
HERO collected $36.68 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $38.41 | Rake $1.73
Board [ ]
Seat 1: yakuni (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: HERO (small blind) showed [ ] and won ($36.68) with a straight, Five to Nine
Seat 3: VILLAIN (big blind) mucked [ ]
Seat 4: Kongimarko folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Smudo217 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: diffi folded before Flop (didn't bet)

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« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2014, 01:00:29 PM »

I wouldn't beat yourself up about betting the river in hand 1, wazz said he'd bet so it shows its very close, I'd often bet myself in game but with enough time to count combos and think it through I'd prolly lean to a cb. I agree though KQ and Q8 will call near on always id imagine.
Raising the flop is an interesting concept, it's kinda exploitative obviously this is way to good of a hand to be "bluffing" with, but his range is going to find it VERY difficult against a raise here given how its pretty bad for his hand this board, we block the only hand were worried about (JJ) so makes us pretty tough to play against and makes the pot big for when/if we hit two pair, and allows us to rep very strong and potentially bluff him off over pairs or AJ later.

I don't mind at all how you played this hand would very often play it exactly the same post flop.

1 thing I will say though is I really like his check call on the turn. Given how J*** heavy your flop range is the T hits you very hard, he has a very good draw and a pretty sound bluff catcher (if needs be) so check cAlling is very good, most people would auto-bet there and then be all tizzy after JT pots it.

Yeh see your point r.e hand 2, actually what I didn't consider was the nfd is usually gonna be 2p by the river so you won't likely be bluffing with that, I still think you can represent enough bluffing hands to bet bigger than you did thoug, 97, Q high clubs etc

These two hands are actually really good examples for river bets, as a general rule I don't like to VB thinly when I don't rep many bluffs (as such wont be bluffing much so won't be razor VB either) and I like to VB a lot thinner where I can represent more bluffs (cos I will be bluffing more in those hands because more of my range OTR will need to bluff) if that makes sense
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