Hmmmm

[rfgqqabc]

PokerStars Hand #110791362970: Tournament #850815372, $50+$5 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2014/01/26 20:19:05 WET [2014/01/26 15:19:05 ET]
Table '850815372 8' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: sordhok (4110 in chips)
Seat 2: kommandoGE (2675 in chips)
Seat 3: Demonic16 (2920 in chips)
Seat 4: daaaaaaang16 (2360 in chips)
Seat 5: wel gibson (1797 in chips)
Seat 6: DeanoSupremo (2935 in chips)
Seat 7: NathansDad1 (3830 in chips)
Seat 8: Quentin73 (2320 in chips)
Seat 9: kraken989 (4053 in chips)
Quentin73: posts small blind 15
kraken989: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Demonic16 [As ]
sordhok: folds
kommandoGE: folds
Demonic16: raises 60 to 90
daaaaaaang16: folds
wel gibson: folds
DeanoSupremo: calls 90
NathansDad1: folds
Quentin73: folds
kraken989: folds
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Demonic16: bets 103
DeanoSupremo: raises 215 to 318
Demonic16: calls 215
*** TURN *** [ ] [Ah]
Demonic16: checks
DeanoSupremo: bets 500

I just folded but wtf. 6 tabling SNE 0 hands before this tourney and 18 so far so nothing to gain from hud info. Horrible.

[theprawnidentity]

This has happened to me like 5 or 6 times tonight when I've had AA/KK.  Actually led to me shouting at my computer earlier.  Strange times.

[titaniumbean]

Deans hilarious bloke.


big question is are you going to fill up?

you can always b/f the flop and don't tell anyone!

[rfgqqabc]

Deans hilarious bloke.


big question is are you going to fill up?

you can always b/f the flop and don't tell anyone!

It did occur but who has the heart for that. We don't do well vs his range tho so might be fair. c/c seems fair but then what are we betting? Just AA/KK and big sets/draws.

[titaniumbean]

well he doesn't know how we construct our ranges, and it will take him a while to find out.


if we're going to hate life when we cbet even our best hands here then we should check and proceed from there, if you think he's ballist and will just fire it off then b/c close your eyes and hover over the middle button.

[rfgqqabc]

well he doesn't know how we construct our ranges, and it will take him a while to find out.


if we're going to hate life when we cbet even our best hands here then we should check and proceed from there, if you think he's ballist and will just fire it off then b/c close your eyes and hover over the middle button.

He knows we are likely to cbet light tho, so c/c is just going to ring alarm bells too. Awkward spot.

[pleno1]

I would not Cbet this board lightly and he should definitely not think so either.

[youthnkzR]

I would not Cbet this board lightly and he should definitely not think so either.

This.

Horrible board for us to bet. Unless he thinks were a complete tard who has 100% CBET then he shouldn't be light. Also since we have no history I would imagine he assumes we're not good enough to fold AA / KK...etc and therefore will only be raising Sets / Q9 / huge combos, e.g.  . Would 100% be folding to the flop raise, if not fold turn.

[pleno1]

Yeh I'd fold flop vs 99% of people but not vs this specific opponent but pretending this in a vacuum folding seems best.

[Junior Senior]

i think these are the spots i struggle with quite often. you guys (apart from OP in game) all auto fold the flop here? disregard the turn for the moment.... what's the thought process on the flop for such a quick fold.

[titaniumbean]

i think these are the spots i struggle with quite often. you guys (apart from OP in game) all auto fold the flop here? disregard the turn for the moment.... what's the thought process on the flop for such a quick fold.

our 1 pair isn't doing very well against the equities the hands he raises the flop with have,  even when we have good equity it's very hard to realise, when we see further streets we are worried that the player is competent therefore can have bluffing/semi bluffing frequencies ie not 0 and not 100% that make us unsure about our decisions. as such we think oooooh you utter git then fold rather than taking extremely tough to play and not clearly +ev spots down the streets.

once you start thinking that the player is very good and raising the flop because of the percieved coffin it puts us in, it makes it all the more annoying to have such a 'strong' yet hard to play hand. hence discussion of checking the flop with a bunch of these kind of hand strengths. 3betting the flop without a very good read ends up with us putting in chunks dead vs sets, trying to guess when he has a draw and not getting max value from our hand the few times it's good.


edit also remembe that we bet this flop with some bluffs, but mainly things that have equity/hit the flop because of the ease of it hitting our opponents calling ranges, as such if our hand looks 'stronger' when we then get raised it looks even 'stronger' and makes us do lots of sighing.


Dont think the term quick fold is correct here, it's more a sigh do some swearing fold to be technical.

[Junior Senior]

Haven't we under repped our hand here though by just calling the flop raise and then checking the turn? I am confused but do admit that I hate these spots oop. The more I think about it and read it back I am identifying a leak. I would find it hard here to fold the flop or turn here

[titaniumbean]

Haven't we under replied our hand here though by just calling the flop raise and then checking the turn? I am confused but do admit that I hate these spots oop. The more I think about it and read it back I am identifying a leak. I would find it hard here to fold the flop or turn here

if we 3bet the flop with AQ, we are stacking off vs his sets, letting him choose what more to put in with his draws, and folding his bluffs.


for all the hands we open and cbet our best response on the flop is to bet call for the above reasons, that means that ANY hand we continue with we should continue with in the same way. if we were to have any hands we 3bet the flop with we want it to be top set and sometimes the nfd in the hope of him having a lower set or lower draws that he crams in all the rest of our ranges play poorly to be 3bet. in general if we 3bet the flop vs a competent player they will very infrequently be shoving.


once we bet call the flop we can have draws, marginal made hands, sets, and we get to see how he reacts. it wont be easy, but it'll have a better expectation then inflating the pot on the flop.

the decision point is whether our play down the streets can be +ev and if we arent sure then just b/f the flop and dont tell anyone lolz


edit IF as we go to bet the flop we think oh wait sigh it's this joker he's aggro and plays well, then we should look to check and realise our equity without letting the pot get too big, although conversely if they are so aggro as to have really really wide ranges then b/f is actually quite bad, and we should either b3b snap or just b/c and not be particularly keen to fold to anything but the worst runouts/action (that would be us saying that we think he has a way too high a bluff frequency on this sort of texture IP).

[The Squid]

Haven't we under repped our hand here though by just calling the flop raise and then checking the turn? I am confused but do admit that I hate these spots oop. The more I think about it and read it back I am identifying a leak. I would find it hard here to fold the flop or turn here

Most people dob't 3-bet the flop with any part of their range on this board (some exploitatively just with 99/AKhh) so no your not under-repping your hand. Indeed we probably ave the weakest hand that we continue with equity wise as he would expect us to fold KQ a lot.

[The Squid]

In general regs/recs dont have a bluff range here so we can just fold our hand on the flop because best case is we up against KThh. BUT that's not how i perceive this villain. Think his flop raise would be real good with KJdd and the like. I'm not gonna consider folding til the river vs good regs at that point if they jam my range is set/overpair heavy enough that we can prob fold.

Also think vs someone good it means we should just be calling with JThh and sets for balance.