The 2014 WSOP Thread. tikay wins a bracelet, the rest is secondary

[TightEnd]

Event #14: $1,500 Limit Omaha Hi-Low

The winner of this one will take home $283,275 for outlasting a total field of 1,036 runners, a very slight increase over last year's field of 1,014

Apparently, this is the biggest live O8 field, 4th non-Hold'em event to clear 1,000 players in WSOP history, 3rd largest non-Hold'em WSOP event ever

220 remain after day 1

1    Kal Raichura    68,100
2    Konstantin Puchkov    65,800
3    Greg Trelski    63,300
4    Alexander Kuzmin    51,900
5    Mike Roeseler    50,700
6    Nick Kost    50,500
7    Lance Dodd    48,100
8    Chris Viox    45,500
9    Benjamin Perez    45,000
10    Guillaume Rivet    45,000

British players remaining - Matthew Ashton, Stephen Chidwick, John Kabbaj, Stuart Rutter, Seb Saffari

[George2Loose]

Re vig gate- is there a big difference between what Andrew is doing and selling at MU for a comp? Why is one universally accepted whilst the other is frowned upon?

[TightEnd]

Neil Channing is usually a fixture at the Rio for the duration of the WSOP.

So why is he giving it a swerve this year?

http://bit.ly/SbfW25

[DungBeetle]

Re vig gate- is there a big difference between what Andrew is doing and selling at MU for a comp? Why is one universally accepted whilst the other is frowned upon?

I have no idea.  Andrew is providing a service and charging accordingly.  People don't have to use it.  I really don't see the issue.

[GreekStein]

Re vig gate- is there a big difference between what Andrew is doing and selling at MU for a comp? Why is one universally accepted whilst the other is frowned upon?

I have no idea.  Andrew is providing a service and charging accordingly.  People don't have to use it.  I really don't see the issue.

I've talked to 5 different well respected pros today about this issue and they unanimously agree this is not cool and none of them would do it.

Trigg wrote on fb (and I hope this is ok to post here). This basically summarises what every single person I've spoken to about it in private thought.

'id rather jump off a bridge than sell at vig for a mutually beneficial transaction. Put in laymen's terms its a ***** trick'

Imo this kinda sums it up perfectly but if you're like Andrew or Rupert and money is seemingly the be all and end all then I guess it's fine because you aren't breaking the law but it says it all that this guy had a pathetic rail. I don't remember the last time a UK guy finalled a WSOP and didn't half half the Brits in Vegas cheering them on.

[bobby1]

Lol at judging a guy by how many fanboys were there to who hoo, I bet he is devastated.

Game has changed a lot and if people want to pay to get money when they have run out then fair play to the guy.

It's deffo changed since I once needed $10k US dollars to buy someone into a comp in ST Kitts as they were missing from the list of qualifiers and the comp started in 60 mins. Thewwy casually asked Marc Goodwin if he had a spare 10 I could borrow and tho I barely knew him at the time he gave it me str8 away and just said we could square up when we all got home. I needed the money quickly and he did me a favour, if he had asked for a few hundred in return I would have given it to him myself because he was doing me a favour. The guy selling now is getting a few quid because he is doing the guys a favour, ok it also helps him to get his money home but that's the perk of having the cash, you get to choose what to do with it.

Congrats on the win too.

[action man]

i don't feel as vehemently as others about this, but kinda think andy and others are thinking too short term. Not charging vig can create a lot of opportunities for friendship, business, banter etc. i mean who wants to go for a beer with someone charging vig or condoning it.

[strak33]

Not as many loud brits this year and Justin "cry baby" Bonomo is leading POY.

[FUN4FRASER]

I love you guys crying over Vig game every year. Such haters that I wanna make more money this summer after a big score, like you just cash big one time and quit trying to make a living.

I can shift 100s of k every wsop np at 5%, usually sell out so much I really think I might charge too little. Last year I ran out of money selling....

It's not like I'm multi after this cash or anything, and it's not like people have to accept whatever price I ask for.

Everyone I've ever dealt with has been pleased by my service, lmk when Thomas cook start taking stars/ neteller and then come by and hand you the money at the rio  the next day.

Saying that, 5% min Vig, more for smaller amounts. Get at me if you need a reliable source of USD cash in a short period of time.

Of course Its a free market out there so potential buyers can make their own choice .

You could draw comparisons to mark up on staking requests  as people have the same  purchase options  - To Buy Or Not To Buy !  however at least with buying money you know what your returns are.

As regards your post above  ... The  " Sledgehammer " reply  is not exactly endearing and could of done with a bit more love ...  words like Subtle and Humility spring to mind... still  its your choice to post as you see fit.

Congrats On The Result !

[lucky_scrote]

If a random stranger asks him for an exchange then I think vig is fine and I certainly wouldn't judge them on it.

It's a bit of a weird one though because Andrew could have just got a bank transfer but instead went down the route of getting cash so he could get vig for it. The thing is I know he is in colossal make-up ATM and I wouldn't be surprised if he just got out with this 4th place finish and is looking to get a lot more out of it.

If I was forced to take the $450k in cash then I'm definitely going to be advertising and selling at spot, it's a win win situation. Not so long ago Piper was trying to sell at spot on here and got ruined for it by the Camel!!!!!

[Suited_Jock]

Don't have an opinion on $ vig but saw it loads on twitter etc.. just want to hop in the thread to congratulate tufat on a big UK score.. wp.

Can we direct some hate at Justin Bonomo, known outed cheater that just won his first bracelet?

[Rupert]

Greekstein - I find it odd that you pigeon hole me with Andy when I've a) merely been defending him and b) stated my complete history of charging vig (hardly enough to tarnish me with only caring about money) but nevertheless I'll hold reservation over your judge of character - particularly after adamantly recommending investing in your (former?) good mates Blatch sports betting empire.

For what it's worth, I have played about 30k hands of poker since WSOP last year so clearly making money is not my be all end all as I would expect that would be the most profitable thing for me to do. Secondary to that, and I may be misguided, but I get more than my fair share of rounds, meals, and will liberally punt on staking action. If you think money is my life, you are frankly wrong.

I find your change of tune from last years thread

Whilst most people were saying how poor form it was, I didn't think you'd done much wrong.

You're essentially running a business and that's fine. I sometimes swap GBP or Online money for Thai Baht and when friends can't do the trade I occasionally pay a vig for someone to do it. It's down to my own poor organisation of my life and money so I accept it and don't begrudge the people who earn a vig from it. In fact, if you're swapping money with people through forums etc who are not your friends irl then what you're doing is pretty smart and in ordinary circumstances I'd wish you luck and hope you earn plenty from it.

somewhat amusing, but mostly you just come across as a bit washed up and withered to me now, to have something that has zero bearing on your life influence you so much.

Nevertheless an interesting debate, especially as every other culture within poker is accustom to it as the norm, for better or for worse. Some people like having options, others would rather criticise I suppose.

[rfgqqabc]

I've done lots of stars for bank xfers for mates or people I've known through here or from online comps and would never charge vig for it. I think if the general accepted market rate for something is lower such as Party $ or w.e then we'd work something out that was fair. I don't really have anything against the guy for doing it but I certainly wouldn't be rushing to the bar to get the drinks in when he turned up late at the bar. It certainly does hold well with me asking for cash to charge $ on it, but if its to a bunch of random dudes then what is the problem? If i'd had a score, taken the cash and Trigg asked for some I wouldn't dream of mentioning vig though. Its kind of a fine line, but it goes on all the time in the poker world, I think the British regs might just be a bit sensitive to it.

[GreekStein]

Greekstein - I find it odd that you pigeon hole me with Andy when I've a) merely been defending him and b) stated my complete history of charging vig (hardly enough to tarnish me with only caring about money) but nevertheless I'll hold reservation over your judge of character - particularly after adamantly recommending investing in your (former?) good mates Blatch sports betting empire.

For what it's worth, I have played about 30k hands of poker since WSOP last year so clearly making money is not my be all end all as I would expect that would be the most profitable thing for me to do. Secondary to that, and I may be misguided, but I get more than my fair share of rounds, meals, and will liberally punt on staking action. If you think money is my life, you are frankly wrong.

I find your change of tune from last years thread

Whilst most people were saying how poor form it was, I didn't think you'd done much wrong.

You're essentially running a business and that's fine. I sometimes swap GBP or Online money for Thai Baht and when friends can't do the trade I occasionally pay a vig for someone to do it. It's down to my own poor organisation of my life and money so I accept it and don't begrudge the people who earn a vig from it. In fact, if you're swapping money with people through forums etc who are not your friends irl then what you're doing is pretty smart and in ordinary circumstances I'd wish you luck and hope you earn plenty from it.

somewhat amusing, but mostly you just come across as a bit washed up and withered to me now, to have something that has zero bearing on your life influence you so much.

Nevertheless an interesting debate, especially as every other culture within poker is accustom to it as the norm, for better or for worse. Some people like having options, others would rather criticise I suppose.

Well actually I stand by my opinion on Teng but I must apologise to you - I take back the comments that grouped you with him. I most definitely overreacted and am quite embarrassed by the childishness of that post. I was just angry that you were seemingly defending him and winning the argument even though I somehow still felt you were wrong and I was right! I should state here just for those who are reading that I have nothing to base remarks that I may have tarnished you with and it was merely a childish dig.

I don't recall ever recommending to anyone else about investing in Blatch though - only to my dad. But if you dig out a 5 year old post where I'll have to stand corrected again, I'm more than happy to apologise again.

I HAVE changed my tune considerably from last year's thread - simply because I didn't really think everything through. If he's running it as a business which he seemingly is, is he legally allowed to operate in such away in America? Does he pay tax on this? The rates he is charging don't sit well with me either. I can get my head round 1 or 2% if they are $$ that he doesn't really want to shift or he is going on journeys delivering them but this doesn't seem to be the case.

In the last 12 months I've sold baht to friends in Phuket several times and never charged a single person a cent more than what it cost me so I'm not just jumping on a bandwaggon for the sake of criticising someone.

Anyway, apologies once again.

Regards,

A withered and washed up Greekstein.

[Honeybadger]

I wouldn't do this, but he can do what he wants I guess. It's not very community spirited, and not very generous, and not very classy. And it is pretty short-sighted in many ways. Plus not likely to make him especially popular. But I'm sure he doesn't care. Money money money innit.

The Vamplew thing was worse from what I heard. Apparently a regular poster on here lent him the money to buy into a tourney, vig free obviously. Vamplew cashed big. Then the same guy asked if he could buy some of the dollars, and Vamplew wanted to charge him vig. That is simply shocking and scummy and disrespectful. But again, I'm sure he doesn't care and just thinks well business is business. Money money money innit.

Is tuftat23 Andrew Teng then? Either way, not a very classy post to make. But then perhaps you are not a very classy guy? I'm sure you don't care though. Money money money innit.

Not even sure why I am bothering typing this tbh. Or why any of us bother to get upset by stuff like this. The gambling world is full of this sort of nonsense and much worse, and we can never change it. Just remember who the good guys are and look after each other. And try not to give up too much to the money money money guys.