It has been a while... 3bet shove or raise?

[Gamblor21]

I haven't posted on PHA in a while. Though want to discuss a hand from the weekend.

Day 2 - 25ish left in Coral 30/30, 18 paid.

4000/2000/500
Hero SB 65k (Ran a big bluff towards the end of day 1 that button saw get through)
Button raises to 8k out of circa 160k (Youngish lad, seems to know what he is doing. Not afraid of calling light through the streets. Has lost a decent size pot recently)

What should be my shoving range and his calling range? I have 107s he calls with A6o. I had his opening range pretty wide 50%+, though probably his calling range lower than what it was.

I've been think about these spots recently and am considering whether I should just 3bet to 25k ish with my entire range and then call it all off pre if he puts us in or bet any flop if he flats. This is try and make my range look stronger, which in isolation it does as he can't think I'm raise folding. Risk is he comes along with some hands he might fold pre that still dominate us, though still has to hit. I think it would have the advantage of getting marginal hands that could be dominated to fold and we're in the same spot if he puts us in anyway.

Thoughts?

[Killerkilsby]

To be honest if title is should you 3b jam or 3b.

Then i think 3b jam is prob better.

However whats your plan if you 3b. Is it to 3bf i presume it is then you are putting in at least 25% of your chips and folding. Also if he flats you have an awful hand and awful stack to play oop vs a guy with chips.

Think i prefer letting this one go and finding a better spot with 16bb.

Imo - fold>call>3b jam>3b.

[Gamblor21]

To be honest if title is should you 3b jam or 3b.

Then i think 3b jam is prob better.

However whats your plan if you 3b. Is it to 3bf i presume it is then you are putting in at least 25% of your chips and folding. Also if he flats you have an awful hand and awful stack to play oop vs a guy with chips.

Think i prefer letting this one go and finding a better spot with 16bb.

Imo - fold>call>3b jam>3b.

Thanks Killer. I'm never 3bet folding here, and if he flats then I'm pretty much leading into any flop. I just think more and more people would call lighter here vs a Jam than they would vs a 3bet from a stack that you can't think would fold if you 4 bet. I'm sure just 3 betting is exploitable but if I'm playing it the same way as if I was allin I can't see much downside. Though that is why i'm asking...

[dakky]

What should be my shoving range and his calling range? I have 107s he calls with A6o. I had his opening range pretty wide 50%+, though probably his calling range lower than what it was.

people don't seem to fold anymore so we should perhaps tighten up somewhat vs someone who "doesn't mind calling" and "just lost a big pot"

Also depends on his image of you whether 3b to try and look stronger over jamming would work. I never give people credit when they open off a real short stack or 3b instead of shoving off 12-15bb stacks and always assume they are trying to look stronger but they seem to just have it 70% of the time. I personally still call them, but I am stubborn, so maybe it is better to make it 23k and jam any flop (obv not folding if he jams).

The poster above said we have a terrible hand if he flats, but it's not THAT bad. Often flop a pair or some kind of draw be it a gutshot or better...

[Junior Senior]

Ian, i can see your thought process but think jamming has to be more profitable in these spots in general than trying some fancy 3bet but perhaps jamming with a tighter range.. but it is villain and stack dependent. If he is a young guy with a big stack and seems capable he is way more likely to call off here with hands that crush you as he will be aware you have a re shoving stack size and are re stealing with a large % of your range. If you've been re shoving a fair bit against him then maybe this 3 bet works as he will have to think you are strong.


I am crap at poker though