Live PLO Cash Hand

[GreekStein]

Blinds are 10/20 euro. Game has been going a while. One guy just spewed off 3 stacks in 45 minutes and left but he got everyone seeing more flops etc in what had otherwise been a fairly tight post flop game.

We are 8-handed.

I UTG+1 limps. I raise to 80 with    .

I get 3 calls, including the limper.

Flop is  .

I check because I want to include some strong hands in my check calling range and the guy next to me, who I've never played with before and has just joined the game with 6k (around 50 years old and has a pretty tasty watch) bets 300. Guy on his left calls and I call.

Turn is  . I check. Guy asks the dealer how much is in the pot and again pretty quickly bets 900. Next guy thinks for 30 seconds and calls. I call.

River is the . I check. Guy shoves very quickly. Other guy shrugs and calls off his last 2k. I have 2.4k left.

Do we call now? Do we prefer to just go ahead and c-bet the flop? What are your general thoughts about the hand?

Appreciate views from everyone, especially PLO experts like Sky poker ANALYST Tony Kendall.

[bobAlike]

Here's your everyone opinion.....

I think you played flop and turn correctly. Any info on second player? I just cant put second player on anything that beats you. Is the old guy betting 66 like this from the flop? In a vacuum I'm calling this off.

....and now for the experts and Tikay

[wazz]

I snapfold the river and then tilt my face off when we have the best hand

There's just too much out there that beats you and the river shrug-call feels like 66+ everytime.

[tikay]

Ha!

PLO expert Tony Kendall here....


This hand shows why I play penny poker, & you play for proper money. My hand would be in the muck long before the river.

How would I play it?

Agree with check calling the flop, but probably for different reasons to you - I'm just trying to exercise pot control, & I don't want to bloat this bugger. 3 or 4 way, I'm not liking life here at all.

I dislike the turn card immensely, this is where I bail out. We are 3 handed with a really bad boat, but more importantly, we have another steeet - & the betting heat that will accompany it - still to come. By bailing out now, I can save myself a whole world of river hurt & pain.

I'd not be there on the River, but even though we hit the nut flush, I think thats possibly/probably a dead card, as at least one of the others has a better boat than me.

And THAT is why I only play penny poker.....I do so profitably though.

Honestly Mr Conk, my balls are not big enough to be playing €10 €20, & I just don't have the game, either.

Hope you gotted the lot. 

[LOJ]

Spew.....

[doubleup]

I check because I want to include some strong hands in my check calling range

....bets 300. Guy on his left calls and I call.

......Guy asks the dealer how much is in the pot and again pretty quickly bets 900.

Do you really need to construct perceived ranges in a game that you aren't going to play thousands of hands in?  Surely you should play each hand for max value even though the lines would be exploitable when your opponents had enough hands?

There would have been 1200 in the pot, did the dealer give the wrong amount or did the player bet 3/4 pot?

As far as the riv goes you block most of the hands that you beat, so a fold for me.  The consolation though is that you will see the showdown and if you are winning, you have found the best plo game ever.

[GreekStein]

I check because I want to include some strong hands in my check calling range

....bets 300. Guy on his left calls and I call.

......Guy asks the dealer how much is in the pot and again pretty quickly bets 900.

Do you really need to construct perceived ranges in a game that you aren't going to play thousands of hands in?  Surely you should play each hand for max value even though the lines would be exploitable when your opponents had enough hands?

There would have been 1200 in the pot, did the dealer give the wrong amount or did the player bet 3/4 pot?

As far as the riv goes you block most of the hands that you beat, so a fold for me.  The consolation though is that you will see the showdown and if you are winning, you have found the best plo game ever.

I've played a few thousand hand in this game already and most of the players in it, so yeah I feel it's ok to include that.

I wish I'd posted sooner - musta got sizes a little off but turn bet was def pot.

[mulhuzz]

Think if you fold river then wp.

Think cbetting would be fine too.

[wazz]

Checking flop is less for balance as our check-continuing range is essentially the same hand but without a 5 - i.e. AA+nfd or 789+fd or thereabouts - and more about inducing semibluffs from hands that might otherwise fold to a c-bet, and pot-control when we're behind which we are more often on a paired board where the cards are next to each other.

[gouty]

Checking flop is less for balance as our check-continuing range is essentially the same hand but without a 5 - i.e. AA+nfd or 789+fd or thereabouts - and more about inducing semibluffs from hands that might otherwise fold to a c-bet, and pot-control when we're behind which we are more often on a paired board where the cards are next to each other.

With this thinking do we put him on 5 6 then? I suppose if we were heads up we could but 3 handed it kinda means the other guy has called off 2k with a straight on a paired board. Stinker of a spot. If his watch is really nice we could call. Where's Lil D?

[gouty]

7/8 diamonds somewhere here maybe? I would shrug call that.

[tikay]

Conky,

Are you going to finish the story?

Can't wait for my expert analysis to be dissed to death.

[pleno1]

My uneducated opinion would be to bet the flop. Pot control I don't think is a good reason for checking, how many turn cards are at all decent when going super multiway. I'd imagine 65 to raise, 66 to raise pretty likely and we have nfd blockers so we can go 2 way instead of 4 way to a turn alot of the time.

[wazz]

Checking flop is less for balance as our check-continuing range is essentially the same hand but without a 5 - i.e. AA+nfd or 789+fd or thereabouts - and more about inducing semibluffs from hands that might otherwise fold to a c-bet, and pot-control when we're behind which we are more often on a paired board where the cards are next to each other.

With this thinking do we put him on 5 6 then? I suppose if we were heads up we could but 3 handed it kinda means the other guy has called off 2k with a straight on a paired board. Stinker of a spot. If his watch is really nice we could call. Where's Lil D?

We're not putting one opponent on squarely one hand. What we need to remember is that due to card removal there is one 5 and three left in the deck, and two opponents laying claim to some of these cards. What that means is we'll see one guy on 5x and the other on 66, the obvious nightmare scenario where we're dead to running kickers, much more often than we're comfortable with and is a large part of the reason to play for pot control in situations like this. The river is a fairly standard, easy fold, barring good->strong reads on both your opponents.

[wazz]

My uneducated opinion would be to bet the flop. Pot control I don't think is a good reason for checking, how many turn cards are at all decent when going super multiway. I'd imagine 65 to raise, 66 to raise pretty likely and we have nfd blockers so we can go 2 way instead of 4 way to a turn alot of the time.

Given how bad shape we can be in, and the fact that when ahead the only really bad turns for us are the ones that make someone else an overboat, OOP I very much prefer taking it slow to start with. Even IP I find it very profitable to slowplay these sorts of boards.