first hand ftops main

[pleno1]

Lololol

Xoxo

[SuuPRlim]

why? how many chips do u estimate you gain from opening? how will you gain these chips? how much did you assume were reverse implied?

I mean im still sure this is a level but if it isn't then what you're saying is in a 9 handed NL table 300 big blinds deep you can't make money with an Ace and a King preflop.

[pleno1]

why? how many chips do u estimate you gain from opening? how will you gain these chips? how much did you assume were reverse implied?

I mean im still sure this is a level but if it isn't then what you're saying is in a 9 handed NL table 300 big blinds deep you can't make money with an Ace and a King preflop.

in a cash game playing 300bb deep id likely be playing against v v bad players and would probably 6-7x AK pre flop. against players who will be calling tight ranges and with hands that flop well vs me and wont put much in with worse when i hit tptk.

its often going to go multiway and my hand doesnt play great, im not particuarly keen on realizing my equity by doing bluffs at this stage, which in a cash game id be way more comfortable doing some funky stuff, overbetting etc

fwiw i raised pre, and regretted it. i won the hand though.

in that case wouldnt it be better not to have a raising range UTG this deep? Just limp our entire range that we would usually open and just attempt to cooler?

if im playing hands that can win big pots like you suggested in another post then quickly reducing spr would be good imo, so raising is better than limping. limping AK is most likely better than raising it though imo.

[SuuPRlim]

in a cash game playing 300bb deep id likely be playing against v v bad players and would probably 6-7x AK pre flop. against players who will be calling tight ranges and with hands that flop well vs me and wont put much in with worse when i hit tptk.

its often going to go multiway and my hand doesnt play great

What? So the average starting table in the Ftops main, an online tournament with 2000 runners and an absolute pile of satellite entrants is much tougher than a 9max NL cash table?

Hands that flop better? So everyone at 15/30 when they have 10,000 chips are folding KQ/KJ/KTs/AQ/AJ/AT/A[2-8]s preflop and just snap folding their AT's on A84r when you cbet?

I admire you're strive to question every "stnd" spot and no doubt that makes you awesome but I can't really buy this, feels like you're over-complicating a simple spot, 2 good cards, lots of chips, weak field = put some chips in...

[pleno1]

all of the mtt regs keep firing till they are in for 6 bullets, its definitely one of the hardest tournaments relative to buy in.

id imagine they fold, KQ, KJ, AJ, AT,

its definitely not a weak field imo.

im just saying that i dont think its clear that we definitely make chips by raising this hand, and at pre ante with hands that im not sure about making chips, and especially if nobody can give an argument other than "good cards" then we should probly fold.

i spoke to few people offline who all thought it was pretty wte spot pre and folding def fine and not huge mistake.

we definitely may be the worst tho, and def want to learn!

[muckthenuts]

If you've scanned the table and seen 9 other good regs to act then yeah i can buy folding. But you haven't and said it's the first hand. Who knows who's behind to give you a bunch of chips with a hand that might reverse them.

[SuuPRlim]

we definitely may be the worst tho

Seems pretty unlikely, but that's the great thing about poker, YOU JUST MIGHT BE

Surely playing AK way more fun than folding it though

[lucky_scrote]

Work out it's about 7 chips -EV and open anyway to save the shame

[pleno1]

youre all foldin aqo right?

[muckthenuts]

Moorman1 was viewing this thread

I wanted to post this regarding AK/AQ.

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
   Equity   Win   Tie
MP2   43.14%   32.55%   10.58%   { AKo }
MP3   56.86%   46.28%   10.58%   { 99+, AQs+, AKo }

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
   Equity   Win   Tie
MP2   33.31%   30.42%   2.89%   { AQo }
MP3   66.69%   63.81%   2.89%   { 99+, AQs+, AKo }

Just put in a random 4% range to show the difference. Though we might all fold one kicker lower in AQ utg it's arguably a flawed comparison point because of how different the equities are.

[SuuPRlim]

come on people play some poker ffs

[lucky_scrote]

Why on earth is an equity thingy being run for AKo. This isn't going in pre is it

[EvilPie]

all of the mtt regs keep firing till they are in for 6 bullets, its definitely one of the hardest tournaments relative to buy in.

id imagine they fold, KQ, KJ, AJ, AT,

Can't see how they're going to manage to 6 bullets in if they fold these sort of hands in position vs a utg open.

[lucky_scrote]

I wonder what's greater, pleno's utg opening range or triggs utg folding range

[action man]

I wonder what's greater, pleno's utg opening range or triggs utg folding range

well there is a difference between what he says it is on here and the actual range