Cash game- wtf now?

[mulhuzz]

Similar thing happened to me. I had bet river for value and annoying prick/ loud drunk guy called by throwing one undersize chip in pot.

I showed my hand (over pair on paired board like j5573) and he mucked one card and showed the other - an irrelevant queen or some such. Important to bite that his mucked card absolutely hit the muck face down. Dealer then mucks his Queen and starts to award me pot. Loud drunk guy then claims his other card was a 5 and reaches for the muck to get them. He somehow retrieves a 5 from the muck (not his first pick...) and now dealer wants to award him the pot. I obv call floor who rules that you can't just look through the entire muck to have your pick of the cards.

Matey boy not happy and no won't put the rest of his call in.

Asked to leave and banned. Imagine similar here.

[Doobs]

Usual answer to this:

Did he say it as an angle shoot or just a very poorly judged drunk joke? If the latter, why enforce the rule that's there to prevent the former?

He's an idiot but he didn't mean at any point to raise.

Best course of action is to give him some encouragement to leave the game, give him his money - in full - and put a note on the system that, the next time he comes in (in a more sober state), to have a word about what happened. It would be, for example, a good idea to buy the other player a drink at the next opportunity, etc.

Forcing £600 out of his wallet is completely the wrong thing to do IMO.

That said, if he's done it before, if he's been warned about it that night or if there's some doubt about his motives, it's less black and white.

Totally agree with this.

Tal is right.  He likely just doesn't understand that his statement is binding.   If the other player has called and the cards have been turned over it has to be ruled differently.  

Think it is very messy, but Tal is making the ruling that is best for the game.  Making players like this feel robbed and not want to come back can't be good for anyone in the long run.

[david3103]

drunks in casinos are just a pain
pretty sure the management have a responsibility to prevent stuff like this, and not allow people to play table games when they aren't in a position to know what they are doing.

[doubleup]

The chips are the property of the casino, if he tries to leave with them they do whatever security do to shoplifters etc, while waiting for the police to come.

[youthnkzR]

If it was really clearly a joke and he said it whilst mucking then I think its bad form of player1 to kick up a fuss about it.

[MANTIS01]

I think this is straightforward. If you play a game you should abide by the rules. If you're ignorant of the rules or forget them well that's all part of the learning experience. I really don't see how or why Player 1 should suffer here. Sure Player 1 could've lost the pot but just as likely Player 1 has been grinding a table of sweaty boring regs all week just to pay the bills. This could be his biggest coup. And what? We say Player 1 doesn't get paid because it was a joke? Nah sorry, the drunk dude made a bet in a casino so he must pay. I mean it's not a rocket science skill to know a bet in a casino stands. And anyway taking advantage of mistakes is what games are all about so I don't like all this feeling sorry for people who make them.

I think if Player 2 is of small physical build Player 1 should follow him out of the casino and recover his funds by means of negotiation. If Player 2 is big or with several friends Player 1 should complain very loudly and suggest the casino should provide the game facilitator service he is paying for. 

[titaniumbean]

Usual answer to this:

Did he say it as an angle shoot or just a very poorly judged drunk joke? If the latter, why enforce the rule that's there to prevent the former?

He's an idiot but he didn't mean at any point to raise.

Best course of action is to give him some encouragement to leave the game, give him his money - in full - and put a note on the system that, the next time he comes in (in a more sober state), to have a word about what happened. It would be, for example, a good idea to buy the other player a drink at the next opportunity, etc.

Forcing £600 out of his wallet is completely the wrong thing to do IMO.

That said, if he's done it before, if he's been warned about it that night or if there's some doubt about his motives, it's less black and white.

this is horribly wrong it's not like it's some small preflop thing or etiquette thing where it's prudent to give a fair chance/warning to a new player, if he makes a bad call shall we give him that back too if he regrets it?


rules are rules and he's clearly trying to now angle shoot to get out of paying what he owes.

he will likely just take the ban and the casino will rofl and never pay money out to the player owed. we all know full well at a roulette table they'd have to pay up if they missed and if their number came in the casino will explain that they kindly let them remove their bet now gtfo the casino.


ppl in this thread misapplying rule 1 imo

[FUN4FRASER]

Usual answer to this:

Did he say it as an angle shoot or just a very poorly judged drunk joke? If the latter, why enforce the rule that's there to prevent the former?

He's an idiot but he didn't mean at any point to raise.

Best course of action is to give him some encouragement to leave the game, give him his money - in full - and put a note on the system that, the next time he comes in (in a more sober state), to have a word about what happened. It would be, for example, a good idea to buy the other player a drink at the next opportunity, etc.

Forcing £600 out of his wallet is completely the wrong thing to do IMO.

That said, if he's done it before, if he's been warned about it that night or if there's some doubt about his motives, it's less black and white.

Totally agree with this.

Tal is right.  He likely just doesn't understand that his statement is binding.   If the other player has called and the cards have been turned over it has to be ruled differently.  

Think it is very messy, but Tal is making the ruling that is best for the game.  Making players like this feel robbed and not want to come back can't be good for anyone in the long run.

Quite surprised at your opinions here guys  .....I'm all for the greater good of the game too but rules are rules and being drunk is no excuse

Titty Beat Me To it   

[TommyD]

Question is if after saying 'Raise,' if the other guy snap mucked would he still say 'only joking' and give him the pot?  I doubt this.  Pay the man his money.  As for getting the money, slightly harder.  You can take it at the cash in desk if he tries to cash out to get back the rest which would be his money, but he's drunk and from OP it sounds like this is about £50 so me might forfeit this out of spite.  So then you have £1.2k of actual money behind the cash desk and a collection of plastic buttons in his pocket as he leaves.  There was a potential old wive's tale back in the day about it being illegal to take chips out of a casino as their are technically casino property.  I have no idea if this is true or not but would be a helpful way of getting the discs off of him in the car park if a few gentlemen, possibly taller than most who usually work the doorway area of said casino, explain it to him in those terms.

Either way, the actual money from the discs is behind the cash desk and can be paid out to the player quite easily.  However you'd have to put it in immediate play if he's continuing.

[mulhuzz]

By the way if it's chips the casino 100% cash him up and allow him to leave. Seen it happen a few times.

[titaniumbean]

By the way if it's chips the casino 100% cash him up and allow him to leave. Seen it happen a few times.

yeh pretty sure they hold no liability/give zero fucks either way.

i'm normally the first one baying for rule 1 to be implemented but nah met not in this situation.

[Tal]

Hang on. Is the drunk guy Tittybeam?

Empty your pockets, son.

[titaniumbean]

Hang on. Is the drunk guy Tittybeam?

Empty your pockets, son.

might be if the raise was to £6.40

[Tal]

Hang on. Is the drunk guy Tittybeam?

Empty your pockets, son.

might be if the raise was to £6.40

Save it for the tape, sunshine.



(I still stand by my earlier post btw, but it's only my opinion, horribly wrong or not)

[titaniumbean]

i'm a massive proponent of rule 1 but this isn't the spot to enforce it.


where do you draw the line? it just opens up all the options in the world for angle shooting.