Celtic - reinstated into the CL

[Teacake]

So UEFA are incompetant because they don't have a process in place to stop something that has pretty much never happened before in literally 1000s of their games. If this was some complicated process that was being repeatedly breached then fair enough but it simply hasn't been an issue.

So UEFA are incompetant because they don't have a process in place to stop something that has pretty much never happened before in literally 1000s of their games. If this was some complicated process that was being repeatedly breached then fair enough but it simply hasn't been an issue.

its happens a few times a seasons in domestic football and happened atleast 3 times now in uefa compertition including 2x involving celtic

now stop being a freaking idiot and listen with your ears and take in with your brain for once and not your green specs


there has now been 3 cases in uefa comps that a situation has occurred where having the 4 official run the team sheet through the computer before he start of play would of solved a problem with players playing that shouldn't have that have ended up with uefa having to make a ruling off the pitch

now stop trying to make me me look the fool and trying to admit your wrong

It's probably time for you to take a break you're getting too emotional now, it's nothing to do with the teams involved its a process that we are talking about.

If I had called you a freaking idiot you would have given me 3 days in the cooler so I would be grateful if you apologised and retracted that statement and then we can move on.

[Teacake]

The other thing is would Legia have been thrown out if the player hadn't come on for the last three minutes? Him playing the last three minutes should be immaterial, as him being listed on the team sheet was the offence.

Wonder what would have happened then? If Legia weren't thrown out in that scenario, Celtic would have had every reason to complain.

Correct, even if he had stayed on the bench the punishment would have been the same.

[Ironside]

So UEFA are incompetant because they don't have a process in place to stop something that has pretty much never happened before in literally 1000s of their games. If this was some complicated process that was being repeatedly breached then fair enough but it simply hasn't been an issue.

So UEFA are incompetant because they don't have a process in place to stop something that has pretty much never happened before in literally 1000s of their games. If this was some complicated process that was being repeatedly breached then fair enough but it simply hasn't been an issue.

its happens a few times a seasons in domestic football and happened atleast 3 times now in uefa compertition including 2x involving celtic

now stop being a freaking idiot and listen with your ears and take in with your brain for once and not your green specs


there has now been 3 cases in uefa comps that a situation has occurred where having the 4 official run the team sheet through the computer before he start of play would of solved a problem with players playing that shouldn't have that have ended up with uefa having to make a ruling off the pitch

now stop trying to make me me look the fool and trying to admit your wrong

It's probably time for you to take a break you're getting too emotional now, it's nothing to do with the teams involved its a process that we are talking about.

If I had called you a freaking idiot you would have given me 3 days in the cooler so I would be grateful if you apologised and retracted that statement and then we can move on.

if you apologies to me for your personal attack on me I will do the same

but if your going to attack me I have the right to reply in the same manor



the fact is on at least 3 occasions a ruling has had to be made after a game that should of been sorted before the game

and you have refused to understand this and keep twisting facts

[Kmac84]

I think uefa owe it to the paying public to ensure teams arent making these mistakes before the game goes ahead.  This game was a farce because no matter what the result was, it wouldnt stand.  People are paying good money to watch this, travelling abroad to go to the game etc and the game is nothing more than a training game.

Some teams cant afford to hire experienced administrators and some teams dont qualify for europe every year so may not be aware of proper procedures for  dealing with things in the european game, but I dont think the fans should be punished by having to fork out their hard earned money to watch a game that couldve been legitimized by a Uefa official taking 5 minutes to check on the eligibility of all players before the game started.

I partly agree but where do you draw the line? 

Its pretty much the same as going abroad and being cheated by a blatant decision that should have gone your way. 

I've travelled all over watching Celtic it's not always been rosey but you take the good with the bad and you moan like f**k after it. 

The difference with dodgy decisions is they are par for the course, mistakes like this one are clear as day.  Legia Warsaw aren't the also rans of football they are a semi decent side they are well set up, indeed the game in Poland is well set up I'd say from my limited experience of it its probably better administered than Scottish football. 

Celtic fans by in large agree the outcome is a farce, but at the end of the day rules are rules.  We don't need to agree with them to have them enforced.  There are many things I find crazy about football that if I was in charge I would change overnight and I reckon it would make the game far better for players, fans, clubs, managers.  And changing this rule wouldn't be in the top10 of things I would change instantly. 

[George2Loose]

Problem with this is, as always, when it comes to footie partisanship clouds people's judgement.

In this day and age for UEFA not to have a process by which banned players can't play is pretty ridiculous.

[Teacake]

Look this is boring and pointless, I haven't attacked anyone and have a full understanding of the process and ruling but you continue to try to argue on a different point.

You can have a different view from someone without it descending into a never ending argument or falling out, something that seems to be lost on more and more posters on this forum.

[Kmac84]

So UEFA are incompetant because they don't have a process in place to stop something that has pretty much never happened before in literally 1000s of their games. If this was some complicated process that was being repeatedly breached then fair enough but it simply hasn't been an issue.

So UEFA are incompetant because they don't have a process in place to stop something that has pretty much never happened before in literally 1000s of their games. If this was some complicated process that was being repeatedly breached then fair enough but it simply hasn't been an issue.

its happens a few times a seasons in domestic football and happened atleast 3 times now in uefa compertition including 2x involving celtic

now stop being a freaking idiot and listen with your ears and take in with your brain for once and not your green specs


there has now been 3 cases in uefa comps that a situation has occurred where having the 4 official run the team sheet through the computer before he start of play would of solved a problem with players playing that shouldn't have that have ended up with uefa having to make a ruling off the pitch

now stop trying to make me me look the fool and trying to admit your wrong

It's probably time for you to take a break you're getting too emotional now, it's nothing to do with the teams involved its a process that we are talking about.

If I had called you a freaking idiot you would have given me 3 days in the cooler so I would be grateful if you apologised and retracted that statement and then we can move on.

if you apologies to me for your personal attack on me I will do the same

but if your going to attack me I have the right to reply in the same manor



the fact is on at least 3 occasions a ruling has had to be made after a game that should of been sorted before the game

and you have refused to understand this and keep twisting facts

The only person twisting facts is you, you have read headlines on the BBC website and thought ah they are right.  The issue with the Debercen player that was listed on BBC Scotland almost as immediate as this coming into the public domain was ripped apart by many who are more offay with the rules than you or I.  

There are far more pressing issues that need dealt with.  This is tough on Legia, for sure, but at the end of the day they broke the rules.  

[Teacake]

I think uefa owe it to the paying public to ensure teams arent making these mistakes before the game goes ahead.  This game was a farce because no matter what the result was, it wouldnt stand.  People are paying good money to watch this, travelling abroad to go to the game etc and the game is nothing more than a training game.

Some teams cant afford to hire experienced administrators and some teams dont qualify for europe every year so may not be aware of proper procedures for  dealing with things in the european game, but I dont think the fans should be punished by having to fork out their hard earned money to watch a game that couldve been legitimized by a Uefa official taking 5 minutes to check on the eligibility of all players before the game started.

I partly agree but where do you draw the line? 

Its pretty much the same as going abroad and being cheated by a blatant decision that should have gone your way. 

I've travelled all over watching Celtic it's not always been rosey but you take the good with the bad and you moan like f**k after it. 

The difference with dodgy decisions is they are par for the course, mistakes like this one are clear as day.  Legia Warsaw aren't the also rans of football they are a semi decent side they are well set up, indeed the game in Poland is well set up I'd say from my limited experience of it its probably better administered than Scottish football. 

Celtic fans by in large agree the outcome is a farce, but at the end of the day rules are rules.  We don't need to agree with them to have them enforced.  There are many things I find crazy about football that if I was in charge I would change overnight and I reckon it would make the game far better for players, fans, clubs, managers.  And changing this rule wouldn't be in the top10 of things I would change instantly. 

Yip, this.

[Kmac84]

Problem with this is, as always, when it comes to footie partisanship clouds people's judgement.

In this day and age for UEFA not to have a process by which banned players can't play is pretty ridiculous.

They do have, they let the clubs no player X is banned for Y games its then upto the club to make sure that the players sits out said games.  The fact that Legia misunderstood the rules and thought by not naming him in their squad he was in effect serving his ban is not the fault of UEFA.  

[doubleup]

Ironside (I understand the point you are making and really don't know what Kmac and Teacake are getting over exited about)

I don't think it is practical to have the onus on UEFA to check players.  In poker we look at rules and say - yeah but if you do that its an angle-shooters charter.  imo putting the onus on UEFA to check before the match would be exactly that eg team puts a suspended player in the line up, but spells his name wrongly or mistypes an id number of some kind and chaos results.  I can think of a myriad of things that could go wrong with a procedure where an official has to check pre-match.  In this case the simplest method is the best with the onus 100% on the team.

[Kmac84]

We could go round in circles with this and never find any agreement but with a bit of googling I have found the following, I am not a club administrator but even from this I understand the rules.  

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/Regulations/01/94/62/34/1946234_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Page 28 explains deadlines for registering squads.  

And this text lifted from the Herald website makes perfectly clear the issue at hand.  

"Bereszynski was sent off in Legia's final Europa League game last season, against Apollon Limassol, and was handed a three-game ban.

Legia believed he had served the first two of these games when they eliminated Dublin club, St Pat's, in the Second Qualifying Round of this season's competition.

And, having also sat out the first leg tie against Celtic, the Polish champions believed his suspension had been completed.

Celtic were not aware of the rule infringement, and did not make a protest.

However, a Swiss Uefa delegate, Paul Krahenbuhl, noticed that Bereszynski had not been included in the squad Legia registered with Uefa for the games against St Pat's.

And, under the competition rules, that meant these two games did not count towards serving his suspension.

Effectively, the clock did not start ticking on his Bereszynski's ban until he was included in their squad list, which he was for the ties against Celtic."

[Ironside]

So UEFA are incompetant because they don't have a process in place to stop something that has pretty much never happened before in literally 1000s of their games. If this was some complicated process that was being repeatedly breached then fair enough but it simply hasn't been an issue.

So UEFA are incompetant because they don't have a process in place to stop something that has pretty much never happened before in literally 1000s of their games. If this was some complicated process that was being repeatedly breached then fair enough but it simply hasn't been an issue.

its happens a few times a seasons in domestic football and happened atleast 3 times now in uefa compertition including 2x involving celtic

now stop being a freaking idiot and listen with your ears and take in with your brain for once and not your green specs


there has now been 3 cases in uefa comps that a situation has occurred where having the 4 official run the team sheet through the computer before he start of play would of solved a problem with players playing that shouldn't have that have ended up with uefa having to make a ruling off the pitch

now stop trying to make me me look the fool and trying to admit your wrong

It's probably time for you to take a break you're getting too emotional now, it's nothing to do with the teams involved its a process that we are talking about.

If I had called you a freaking idiot you would have given me 3 days in the cooler so I would be grateful if you apologised and retracted that statement and then we can move on.

if you apologies to me for your personal attack on me I will do the same

but if your going to attack me I have the right to reply in the same manor



the fact is on at least 3 occasions a ruling has had to be made after a game that should of been sorted before the game

and you have refused to understand this and keep twisting facts

The only person twisting facts is you, you have read headlines on the BBC website and thought ah they are right.  The issue with the Debercen player that was listed on BBC Scotland almost as immediate as this coming into the public domain was ripped apart by many who are more offay with the rules than you or I. 

There are far more pressing issues that need dealt with.  This is tough on Legia, for sure, but at the end of the day they broke the rules. 

still not listening I see

[Kmac84]

Ironside (I understand the point you are making and really don't know what Kmac and Teacake are getting over exited about)

I don't think it is practical to have the onus on UEFA to check players.  In poker we look at rules and say - yeah but if you do that its an angle-shooters charter.  imo putting the onus on UEFA to check before the match would be exactly that eg team puts a suspended player in the line up, but spells his name wrongly or mistypes an id number of some kind and chaos results.  I can think of a myriad of things that could go wrong with a procedure where an official has to check pre-match.  In this case the simplest method is the best with the onus 100% on the team.

Pretty sure me and Teacake are both on the same hymn sheet here and also understand Ironsides point.  That doesn't stop him being wrong. 

You know the old saying opinions are like arseholes. 

[Ironside]

Ironside (I understand the point you are making and really don't know what Kmac and Teacake are getting over exited about)

I don't think it is practical to have the onus on UEFA to check players.  In poker we look at rules and say - yeah but if you do that its an angle-shooters charter.  imo putting the onus on UEFA to check before the match would be exactly that eg team puts a suspended player in the line up, but spells his name wrongly or mistypes an id number of some kind and chaos results.  I can think of a myriad of things that could go wrong with a procedure where an official has to check pre-match.  In this case the simplest method is the best with the onus 100% on the team.

yeah I just think that checks could solve bringing the competition into chaos, and solve issues like this before they happen. In a poker tourney for something like this where a player/team wasn't trying to pull a fast one then common sense would of come into play. And incase of the Sion game where they were angle shooting they deserved to be thrown out

[kinboshi]

 

Ironside (I understand the point you are making and really don't know what Kmac and Teacake are getting over exited about)

I don't think it is practical to have the onus on UEFA to check players.  In poker we look at rules and say - yeah but if you do that its an angle-shooters charter.  imo putting the onus on UEFA to check before the match would be exactly that eg team puts a suspended player in the line up, but spells his name wrongly or mistypes an id number of some kind and chaos results.  I can think of a myriad of things that could go wrong with a procedure where an official has to check pre-match.  In this case the simplest method is the best with the onus 100% on the team.

To expand on the poker analogy, I have a good example.

Someone is banned from comps at DTD (a temporary ban). It's up to the player not to try to enter any comps. But if this bloke does try and enter a comp it's surely better if DTD's system says "whoa you're banned" - and he can't play. If they didn't have the system, The bloke enters the comp, wins chips off players, possibly knocks some people out or contributes to that happening. Then DTD see he's in the comp and pull him out. That solves the immediate problem of him playing, but some damage has already been done and the clock can't be rolled back.

It's not identical, obviously, but the similarities are there.