Dont knock me...honest opinions please

[suzanne]

I have in the past put a couple of hand analysis up and they have been shot to the ground so I stopped doing it. I am not a good player..never claimed to be..so here goes again...I am looking for advice, if you cant offer it then please dont post.

Table Name Hand ID Game Stakes
$3 - NL - 9 Seats 6817129-2 Holdem No Limit 20/40
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Hand Start.
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 1 : shootingfish has $2,230
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 2 : doghousedar has $1,960
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 3 : saintdave has $2,000
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has $2,000
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 5 : marbar has $1,870
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 6 : snailer has $2,000
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 7 : BCslider has $1,960
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 8 : fish pod has $2,000
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 9 : darkangel13 has $1,980
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : darkangel13 is the dealer.
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : shootingfish posted small blind.
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : doghousedar posted big blind.
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Game [2] started with 9 players.
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has
[Jan 27 00:48:12] : saintdave folded.
[Jan 27 00:48:14] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 7 min. 
[Jan 27 00:48:52] : MissHoolie called 40
[Jan 27 00:48:54] : marbar folded.
[Jan 27 00:48:56] : snailer folded.
[Jan 27 00:49:00] : BCslider called 40
[Jan 27 00:49:02] : fish pod folded.
[Jan 27 00:49:04] : darkangel13 folded.
[Jan 27 00:49:07] : shootingfish called 20
[Jan 27 00:49:07] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 7 min. 
[Jan 27 00:49:07] : doghousedar checked.
[Jan 27 00:49:08] : Dealing flop.
[Jan 27 00:49:08] : Board cards [ Ah]
[Jan 27 00:49:09] : MissHoolie : tickling sticks not allowed brw
[Jan 27 00:49:19] : shootingfish bet 80
[Jan 27 00:48:51] : doghousedar called 80
[Jan 27 00:48:53] : MissHoolie called 80
[Jan 27 00:48:57] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 6 min. 
[Jan 27 00:49:01] : BCslider folded.
[Jan 27 00:49:01] : Dealing turn.
[Jan 27 00:49:01] : Board cards [ Ah ]
[Jan 27 00:49:11] : shootingfish bet 200
[Jan 27 00:49:12] : doghousedar called 200
[Jan 27 00:49:16] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 6 min. 
[Jan 27 00:49:19] : MissHoolie called 200 and raised 1,680 and is All-in
[Jan 27 00:49:52] : shootingfish called 1,680 and raised 230 and is All-in
[Jan 27 00:49:52] : Under-Raise rules are now in effect.
[Jan 27 00:49:56] : doghousedar called 1,640 and is All-in
[Jan 27 00:49:56] : Showdown!
[Jan 27 00:49:56] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has
[Jan 27 00:49:57] : Seat 1 : shootingfish has
[Jan 27 00:49:57] : Seat 2 : doghousedar has
[Jan 27 00:49:57] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : Board cards [ Ah ]
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : Seat 1 : shootingfish has
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : shootingfish has Straight 65432
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : MissHoolie has Two Pair: and
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : shootingfish wins 80 with Straight 65432
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : Seat 1 : shootingfish has
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : shootingfish has Straight 65432
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : Seat 2 : doghousedar has
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : doghousedar has Straight 65432
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : MissHoolie has Two Pair: and
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : shootingfish ties 2,960 with Straight 65432
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : doghousedar ties 2,960 with Straight 65432
[Jan 27 00:50:07] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 6 min. 
[Jan 27 00:50:12] : MissHoolie : oops
[Jan 27 00:50:17] : Hand is over.

[TightEnd]

Hey don't be defensive suzanne, I am sorry you felt your previous hand histories were shot down in flames


We will try and do better this time



I don't think I call pre flop

I think I raise on the flop in case any one is drawing to a flush or the straight or has the straight


Then if anyone calls my raise I have to proceed slower

I have to believe if you raise here on the flop you get a reraise from one of the straights worried about the flush

Do you pass? maybe not, but at least you can pass and save some chips

As it is you think you are winning after a non diamond turn....bet you were surprised when they both had 45!! 

[ifm]

Suzanne babe don't be too negative, the truth is some peeps on here are very passionate about hand analysis and believe "telling it straight" is the best policy when they see what they consider a bad play, i'm sure it was never meant to be abusive or condascending (sp?) to you.

My opinion is that you did what i do, call with a rubbish hand and try to hit a flop.
You succeeded but unfortunately so did they, that's just part of the game.
I probably would have reraised the flop and ended up putting my chips in then because i think someone with a weak ace is donating
As it is the turn was a great card for you and you just can't get away from it IMO.
It's the risk you take, most times you flop 2 pair you are miles in front.

[JP]

Out of interest how long have you been playing suzanne?
I'm guessing not very long. Trying to play these kind of hands is very tricky because you will leave yourself with tougher decisions.
Pre-flop - you should have folded you don't know it is gonna be a multiway pot and you are out of position - keep it simple.
Flop - I'm raising this flop as you almost certainly have the best hand but thereare many turn cards whichwill kill your hand or give somebody a better 2 pair. Make it about 250.
        If you are re-popped on the flop you almost certainly have to lay this hand down. You have the weakest 2 pair and if you are up against something like A-4d you are in bad shape to  
        stay ahead.
Turn - Ok 2 pair and a flush draw but notice shooting fish hasn't slowed down, he is in the small blind and his most likely hand here is A2 or A3. I would probably smooth call the 200 as your
          hand looks better than it actually is and you needed to improve to win.

Notice a lot of these 'funky' hands require more feel and knowledge of your opponents. I started as a tight player and as my game has evolved I have started to be a bit more creative but when I first loosened up my results suffered and I was constantly out early, so it is all about finding a balance.

In these small buy in tournaments keeping it simple is the best way to play as some of these players are REALLY bad and will gift you chips, nothing wrong with waiting for a hand and getting paid off.

Keep at it and cut out the limping with garbage until you evolve as a player! Good Luck

[I KNOW IT]

Out of interest how long have you been playing suzanne?
I'm guessing not very long. Trying to play these kind of hands is very tricky because you will leave yourself with tougher decisions.
Pre-flop - you should have folded you don't know it is gonna be a multiway pot and you are out of position - keep it simple.
Flop - I'm raising this flop as you almost certainly have the best hand but thereare many turn cards whichwill kill your hand or give somebody a better 2 pair. Make it about 250.
        If you are re-popped on the flop you almost certainly have to lay this hand down. You have the weakest 2 pair and if you are up against something like A-4d you are in bad shape to 
        stay ahead.
Turn - Ok 2 pair and a flush draw but notice shooting fish hasn't slowed down, he is in the small blind and his most likely hand here is A2 or A3. I would probably smooth call the 200 as your
          hand looks better than it actually is and you needed to improve to win.

Notice a lot of these 'funky' hands require more feel and knowledge of your opponents. I started as a tight player and as my game has evolved I have started to be a bit more creative but when I first loosened up my results suffered and I was constantly out early, so it is all about finding a balance.

In these small buy in tournaments keeping it simple is the best way to play as some of these players are REALLY bad and will gift you chips, nothing wrong with waiting for a hand and getting paid off.

Keep at it and cut out the limping with garbage until you evolve as a player! Good Luck

[tikay]

Wow, firstly WHAT a piece of gold JP's analysis is. It's just wonderful that a top player like JP devoted so much of his time to help Suzanne, & ends up helping us all. I nominate JP as "Top blonde Schoolboy". I shudder to think how good he will be when he is fully grown. That is truly an astonishigly well-thought out Post. Thanks JP.

Now to Suzanne. I have PM'd you my personal apology, but I'm happy to go on Forum & apologize if you were flamed for your play. That is NOT acceptable to me, & it will not be allowed to happen again. You need to feel comfy here, & not have any fears that you will be flamed or intimidated. We will make sure you are respected just as much as the Billy Big Names.

Can we move on from there?

[Gamblor21]

JP Excellent post... and Suzanne you can't go wrong by listening to the young chap!

As he said the best way to start playing is to play tight, Get used to passing most hands that are'nt "good hands" that means stop playing hands like 23suited Q7suited etc! I get the feeling that you like the suited cards but they get you in trouble so often that early on when you start playing you should leave these hands alone, unless they are "premium"

Once you have become comfortable with your game, and the fact that you know what is a good hand and what is a bad one! You will see that your decisions become so much easier... I was exactly the same as JP started off as a tight player, then once i become more experienced i began realising that i could experiment with different hands. But still play best when i keep the junk hands down to a minimum when the time is right for them!

If you keep posting your histories then you will get alot of help from the people on here, and i'm sure you will keep on improving!

Goodluck

[mystery721]

everything has pretty much been said suzanne, the only thing i will say is that it doesnt really matter wot u bet on the flop, if this guy has called an all in with an up and down straight draw with 1 card to come, there is no way he is going away with 2 cards to come, so nothing u coulda done woulda got them to fold. take care and gl

[ACE2M]

I often point new players to this page on blonde, excellent guide from el blondie on playable hands and when/when not to play them.

http://blondepoker.com/beginners/005006.html

[Wardonkey]

Nevermind all that, why are tickling sticks not allowed?

 MissHoolie : tickling sticks not allowed brw

[Jamier-Host]

everything has pretty much been said suzanne, the only thing i will say is that it doesnt really matter wot u bet on the flop, if this guy has called an all in with an up and down straight draw with 1 card to come, there is no way he is going away with 2 cards to come, so nothing u coulda done woulda got them to fold. take care and gl

Erm, I think holding 4 5 on an A 2 3 flop means they already had the straight.....

[dan]

I often point new players to this page on blonde, excellent guide from el blondie on playable hands and when/when not to play them.

http://blondepoker.com/beginners/005006.html

that is a good piece but there is one flaw in it

74, 73, 72, 63, 62, 53, 52, 43, 42, 32 - Pass these hands. They are unprofitable

[snoopy1239]

I often point new players to this page on blonde, excellent guide from el blondie on playable hands and when/when not to play them.

http://blondepoker.com/beginners/005006.html

that is a good piece but there is one flaw in it

74, 73, 72, 63, 62, 53, 52, 43, 42, 32 - Pass these hands. They are unprofitable

7-4!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DC, may God have mercy on your soul.

ps. What the hell are tickling sticks and why aren't you allowed them?

[suzanne]

On rereading my opening post I think perhaps I worded it a little too strongly, so I apologise for that. On a previous thread someone had said that it was the worse play he had ever seen which left me feeling a little embarrassed...its a girl thing but... I'm over it now  

I usually find 2 3 suited is a very lucky hand for me so when I get it I just HAVE to play it. I know I should have folded preflop but since my chips are in there I wanted to know how you guys would have played it.

Thank you all for your advice and epecially JP as that is exactly what I wanted to know. You are right I havent been playing very long but I have a passion for the game and a thirst to become a better player which is one of the reasons I find this forum a real treasure.

I will try to tighten up my game and as has been suggested...keep it simple. A sound piece of advise which I am going to write down and stick on my monitor.

[Wardonkey]

I still want to know about the tickling stick...