UKIPT London v GUKPT Luton

[Jono3131]

G at Luton is full of fanny on the pi55 on a Friday and Saturday -surely that's a better reason to play it ??

Yeah the westend is deserted

They're higher maintenance tho
A few years ago in the smoking cage at luton it was "" ooh you're a poker player ?"
You could almost tell they were getting damp downstairs at the prospect of a bad beat story
You'd need a Bentley story to achieve the same with a west end girl

Aston Martin stories just don't quite cut it!

[claypole]

G at Luton is full of fanny on the pi55 on a Friday and Saturday -surely that's a better reason to play it ??

Yeah the westend is deserted

If its deserted just get on Tinder Flushy....here its a ten minute success rate for you

Lots of love...the saftey net has grown up ha ha

[robyong]

Hi guys,

My penniesworth;

1. Re-Entry - as an operator - I am totally against same day re-entry, but I don't mind the format where you can re-enter into the next day, therefore the last day 1 becomes a freeze-out i.e. more even playing field. The reason I am in favour of next day re-entry is that it allows travelling players to effectively play 2 tournaments for 1 set of expenses and if your mate gets through to Day 2, you have another shot. So why do we have same day re-entry at DTD? - one simple reason - players are OVERWHELMINGLY in favour of it at ALL levels of buy-in, especially when they bust out. I have had many debates on re-entry, for 6 months we stopped allowing it in the club - and our unique players went DOWN by 25%, and there was uproar when players turned up and busted out and we wouldn't allow them to re-enter. Re-Entry is BAD for the casino operators as players put money into a poker prizepool that is won by 10% of the field, instead of spending it on cash games, F & B and casino games., the additional rake is peanuts to the negative effect this has on overall spend per head to the operator. Only PokerStars can get away with refusing the re-entry option to players, and even now almost all PokerStars events except the main event are re-entry, which 'keeps the pros sweet' to a certain extent. Poker Tours cannot exist without pros and wealthy amateurs. Everyone can type from their armchair 'no-entry' is better, but as soon as they bust out, the same people are then asking to re-enter. Very frustrating because re-entry is bad for players and operators in the long term. One further point of re-entry, say we used to play a £1000 comp with a £100K GTE, if the buy-in drops to £500 but the GTE still remains at £100K, this mitigates the re-entry 'taking too much out of players pockets' situation somewhat, but overall, Re-entry is bad for everyone - operators and players - it just benefits winning pros or wealthy amateurs where money is no object.

2. Tournament Rake - I can tell you from experience of DTD and knowledge of other tours that I am privy to, that poker tournaments are incredibly unprofitable, you would have to charge 20% rake to turn a profit on the real costs of running a half decent poker event. Factor in promotions. free rolls, satellites, on top of extra floorstaff, the cost of salaries dedicated to these tours plus logistical expenses of running something bigger than normal, to my knowledge only the WSOP in Las Vegas could claim to make a genuine profit. To give you an idea, as at today, the WPT pre-expenses have already cost us £150K and the event is still 4 weeks away - I'd expect the total cost to DTD to be £500K+. So why are there so many tours persisting nowadays if they really do lose money - the answer is simple - because whatever the live and online gaming companies see their competition doing - they feel they have to follow suit in fear of losing market share. In my opinion the WSOP have got it right in terms of how they charge rake, everyone pays $10,000 and their rake is taken out of the winners prizepool rather than charging a reg fee on top, say $10000 + $600 - of course its better for 'winning players' to play events with reg fees on top, but its better for poker ecology overall to take the reg fees from the winners prizepool, that's simple economics for an event where only 10-15% are paid.

3. Payouts - I am personally as a player in favour of a higher min cash and paying 10%, but for a sustainable poker ecology, it's better to pay as deep as possible, like PokerStars do. This an example of me (as a player) wanting what's bad for poker as a whole, I am guilty of wanting to play events with unlimited re-entries and super top heavy payouts, so I need the Operators to NOT do what I want as a player.

In my honest opinion - PokerStars are hanging on to the ethics of what is good for the poker ecology (resisting re-entries in most main events, qualifying recreational players for pennies, spending money on TV advertising raising awareness about poker, sponsoring celebs like Rafael Nadal, paying deep etc). Why are they doing this ? Simple reason - they ARE 90% of the poker ecology - so they really do need to do what's in the best interests of the game. I wish we could do the same at DTD, but we are just not 0.000000000001% powerful enough to do so.


So, with so many things WRONG in poker at the moment, why has the poker bubble not burst yet? Simple - the major operators are billion dollar companies that can afford to sustain it, poker improves footfall stat's both live and online, the stock markets like footfall stats, the stock traders run for cover when they see customer footfall down - so for the moment, we will see more and more tours and events and the market will become even more saturated. Tier 2 operators (meant in the politest way as I consider PokerStars and WSOP as Tier 1 market leaders) such as DTD, Grovesnor, Genting + Co, will have to give poker players what want even if it's not in the overall best interests of the game.

Cheers Rob



 

[celtic]

G at Luton is full of fanny on the pi55 on a Friday and Saturday -surely that's a better reason to play it ??

Yeah the westend is deserted

If its deserted just get on Tinder Flushy....here its a ten minute success rate for you

Lots of love...the saftey net has grown up ha ha

Oioi, Claypole found a fella to settle down with?

[AndrewT]

In my opinion the WSOP have got it right in terms of how they charge rake, everyone pays $10,000 and their rake is taken out of the winners prizepool rather than charging a reg fee on top, say $10000 + $600 - of course its better for 'winning players' to play events with reg fees on top, but its better for poker ecology overall to take the reg fees from the winners prizepool, that's simple economics for an event where only 10-15% are paid.

These two ways are exactly the same - the WSOP entry could just as easily be written $9400+$600.

[SuuPRlim]

Very interesting post Rob.

TBH I think what is happening is gambling as both a serious recreation and a profession is getting suffocated from every angle, rake and juice shooting up everywhere, player pools and national markets segregated, high stakes cut off online, bookmakers squeezing savvy punters  etc and its making it fairly infuriating for professional players to sustain themselves...

This is obviously very annoying as it's hitting people in the pockets, but IMO it's been a relative free-for-all for years and years and only now it's finally catching up, I don't blame the operators, or the governments for this at all I think it's just the way of the world.

Casual recreational gamblers (who must make up 85%+ of the overall gambling market) are virtually unaffected (well they are effected by the effect is fairly negligible to them) and because of this it's fair game imo. Everything will be fine, except a few "pro's" that might have to dust the CV off.

[dreenie]

I went up to Luton last night and played some sats for gukpt main and the 6 max.

I have nothing bad to say about the people running it, I think they are a good bunch and I like the fact they bring in some of the top management from the vic to oversee things.

However I don't ever seem to enjoy a grosvenor event like I do a stars event... I say this with respect but it literally is like sitting in a morge.  I like to think of myself as a part time player who is trying to grind it out again so surely I should be more moody than most of these regulars?

I mean they just don't make you feel welcome, actually totally the opposite and they get away with it and have done for so long, it's no wonder the gukpts aren't getting the numbers of late compared to the stars events.

I agree with rob I think re entries are absolutely awful for a 1k and it literally only appeals to people who have money to burn because let's face it, who in there right mind who is mentally stable is going to want to re load 4 times in one day?!

There should be way more sats done online and they need to promote it better like rob started doing with dtd I'm sure his sattelite figures have increased from a year ago.

Stars events are not exactly entertaining by all means but I have never been made to feel uncomfortable in ANY event I've played they have put on and there may not be much talking all of the time majority if not all players at the table have respect for other people sat there too.

And charging £3 for a can of red bull just to have the privilege of drinking it inside your casino because you want to gain huge profit from food and beverage is pretty insulting tbh. It is the same can the same drink you make enough from table games and cash game rake, you shouldn't punish customers who want a non alcoholic drink just because you are not making huge amounts for putting on tournaments.

[DTD-ACES]

I can confirm that when we removed re-entry from DTD tournaments our unique numbers plummetted for that 6 month period and it was a huge gripe with players. Whilst Rob is against same day re-entry I am actually in favour of what I call 'Limited Re-Entry' where is a player busts in the first 60 minutes the player can re-enter. This deals with the gripe of 'I've travelled 300 miles and had AA cracked all in pre flop'. However, as with anything in poker, the market will decide over time what the right balance is.

In terms of GUKPT V UKIPT, I have played both and I view them as different products, I feel GUKPT and GPS have a more local feel and for some players who cannot travel round the tours, they are their 'local championships', where as UKIPT is much more of a 'Tour'. I would play both if I had the time, I like the UKIPT because of the professional feel, it's like an 'event', but I also like the GUKPT because it reminds of my playing days and there is something nice about playing a smaller field where you know most of the players.

In terms of the tournament reg fees, being on the other side of the fence now and understanding the costs, I am happy with 10% reg fee either on top or from prizepool, as long as the tournament has a decent gaurentee and the staff are friendly, which both of these events are.

On another note, live players have an amazing choice compared to when I was playing full time, when I hear pros / circuit regulars moan, I can't believe how easily we forget so how things used to be, the facilities, choice, structures, added money/overlays, opportunities to qualify and guaranteed prizepools are amazing in the UK nowadays for live players.

Cheers Aces

[Omm]

I went up to Luton last night and played some sats for gukpt main and the 6 max.

I have nothing bad to say about the people running it, I think they are a good bunch and I like the fact they bring in some of the top management from the vic to oversee things.

However I don't ever seem to enjoy a grosvenor event like I do a stars event... I say this with respect but it literally is like sitting in a morge.  I like to think of myself as a part time player who is trying to grind it out again so surely I should be more moody than most of these regulars?

I mean they just don't make you feel welcome, actually totally the opposite and they get away with it and have done for so long, it's no wonder the gukpts aren't getting the numbers of late compared to the stars events.

I agree with rob I think re entries are absolutely awful for a 1k and it literally only appeals to people who have money to burn because let's face it, who in there right mind who is mentally stable is going to want to re load 4 times in one day?!

There should be way more sats done online and they need to promote it better like rob started doing with dtd I'm sure his sattelite figures have increased from a year ago.

Stars events are not exactly entertaining by all means but I have never been made to feel uncomfortable in ANY event I've played they have put on and there may not be much talking all of the time majority if not all players at the table have respect for other people sat there too.

And charging £3 for a can of red bull just to have the privilege of drinking it inside your casino because you want to gain huge profit from food and beverage is pretty insulting tbh. It is the same can the same drink you make enough from table games and cash game rake, you shouldn't punish customers who want a non alcoholic drink just because you are not making huge amounts for putting on tournaments.

Some interesting points Dreenie, I think I may have played with you (if you are the same person that had the table in stitches about wanting to pay £1.20 for a Redbull and asking to speak to the manager, if not I apologise, there is obviously more people that have a problem with the price of a Redbull)

Anyway, I wanted to pick up on a couple of points, I can understand your issue with some players not making you feel welcome, I've felt this myself before and sometimes still do (even though I May go upto 3/4 times a week), however there are far more people that make you feel welcome and are a pleasure to sit and play with, have a chat and some great conversation, I would hate to think that your opinion is based around a few regs that are not that welcoming when I really do thnk these are in the minority not the majority.

You have mentioned your dislike of the cost of certain drinks but you haven't mentioned that the Casino offer a variety of drink free of charge, zero money, not a extra penny from your pocket for Tea, Coffee, Hot Choc, Latte, Cappacino, any draught soft drink ( coke, diet coke, lemonade etc etc) all squashes as well. The valets are excellent and will even bring you an ice cold water directly to your table ( although if you would rather not wait you can get hot drink from the machine yourself and also the water machine). I sometimes think people take this for granted and do not understand how privileged they are that this is provided. I recently went to the Vic and had to pay for all of the above, not much (£1.50 I think, although the water was free), also when I visit my parents in Kent I go to Thanet G and they also charge for drinks. My point is that yes I agree that some of the drinks have a high mark up but at least at Luton there is an alternative that will not cost you anything.

This week I've met some wonderful people for all over the country and I have thoroughly enjoyed welcoming these people to Luton, I myself my not have been as welcoming all week, it can get quite tough sitting all day, bubbling sats, getting bad beats and still staying happy but you are right it certainly shouldn't be like a morge and you should always feel like you are welcome somewhere. Next time your around come and find me and we shall have a good moan together, you might remember me if you are the person having a whine about the Redbull, I'll be the person who knocked you out of the weds night Sat (sic brag!!!) if not give me a shout on here first and I'll find you.

[dreenie]

Yes I am the that person ! Haha

And fair point about the free drinks however that personally doesn't affect me as if I was to order a coke there would always be a tip given so essentially I am paying for it and let's be honest it's not top quality coke a cola? I had one before the red bull fiasco and it tasted very strange yet had still given the young lady 1.50£ tip.

Anyway I understand it's a business etc but I can't understand why they charge so high honestly I don't.  I'm not tight, far from it but it is the principle, it is a disgrace now establishments get away with this sort of thing imo. I didn't even want a glass that's how funny the whole thing is!

It's like they can't charge normal prices for the identical stuff u get in a shop elsewhere, as they feel they don't make enough elsewhere... or is it that they are just like poker players squeezing out of the economy until it's dry? Because it may well be 2 different things but that's what it feels like.

Anyway I will admit when I played my 2nd sattelite by the bar area I had a lot more fun than in the actual card room and yes you were very friendly... nice to meet you and hope u won the seat after fishing me with the dead man's hand 😉

[Marky147]

Red Bull is shit, and pointless... unless you're using it for Jaegerbombs

[Omm]

Yes I am the that person ! Haha

And fair point about the free drinks however that personally doesn't affect me as if I was to order a coke there would always be a tip given so essentially I am paying for it and let's be honest it's not top quality coke a cola? I had one before the red bull fiasco and it tasted very strange yet had still given the young lady 1.50£ tip.

Anyway I understand it's a business etc but I can't understand why they charge so high honestly I don't.  I'm not tight, far from it but it is the principle, it is a disgrace now establishments get away with this sort of thing imo. I didn't even want a glass that's how funny the whole thing is!

It's like they can't charge normal prices for the identical stuff u get in a shop elsewhere, as they feel they don't make enough elsewhere... or is it that they are just like poker players squeezing out of the economy until it's dry? Because it may well be 2 different things but that's what it feels like.

Anyway I will admit when I played my 2nd sattelite by the bar area I had a lot more fun than in the actual card room and yes you were very friendly... nice to meet you and hope u won the seat after fishing me with the dead man's hand 😉

Haha, yeah it was a laugh, you was highly entertaining at how disgusted u were about the price, I actually agree with you but I choose not to buy it, anyway I did finally get a seat so I certainly put your chips to good use. Look forward to playing with you again some time.

[77dave]

How much is red bull at other venues?

[Rockstar]

£3 a tin of Red Bull is bog standard stuff in most pubs/clubs and has been for a long while

Grovesnors class themselves as such as they have a late licence (2am 7 days a week)

Not sure you can ever compare what you pay in a shop to a late licence venue tbh

[arbboy]

Table Six
Seat One – Brihesg Das
Seat Two – Neel Chudasama
Seat Three – Thomas Myland
Seat Four – Bruce Atkinson
Seat Five – Alan Gray
Seat Six – Vince Calenti
Seat Seven – Dean Clay
Seat Eight – Graham Wheldon
Seat Nine – Arron Woodcock

gl to the blondes on this table at Luton today.

http://www.gukpt.com/gukpt-2014-leg-9-luton-day-1b-blog/  Go to 2.10 mins on the cardroom pan video for a great rubdown for celtic and chompy from tower on the comms!