Ched Evans

[The Camel]

Camel by that logic there should be no difference between murder and attempted murder. We're just being results orientated there as well!

Obviously there's no differencew between murder and attempted. Life for both obv.

Although I guess it is a fine line between GBH and attempted murder.

If there is any doubt, the sentence should reflect this.

If the jury is convinced someone is guilty of attempted murder, they should receive the same sentence as a murderer

[buzzharvey22]

We're not going to run out of footballers anytime soon - get rid. H can become a bricklayer or something.

A lot of my family have been bricklayers over the years. I think you should make this comment in front of one of them. See what happens.

[pleno1]

yeah very surprised at that comment

[The Camel]

Don't take it personally.

Sure Andrew just plucked the first profession which popped into his head.

He's not suggesting bricklayers are a bunch of sick perverts.

[bobby1]

I know and don't care that clubs have signed murderers. I'm not saying he shouldn't be allowed to play.  I'm saying that it reflects very poorly on anyone who would employ him and says a lot about them, particularly given his lack of contrition.
Again I ask would anyone employ a convicted rapist to represent them?

Agree about the Plymouth keeper. He does at least seem to be genuinely upset and repause how bad what he did was however.

The contrition point is an interesting one.

Saying "I did it, but I don't care about the victim" is a lot different from saying "I have been wrongly convicted, so I don't need to show remorse".

He was found guilty, so I presume the jury who had the most access to all the evidence made the correct decision.  But while he is still trying to clear his name it doesn't seem unreasonable for him to take this stance?

This is the bit some people don't understand/seemingly haven't thought about, he steadfastly believes he has been convicted incorrectly and seems of the mindset he has paid for something he didn't do.


It is likely he is rapist but it's also possible that the sex was consensual and the girl really cannot remember it too. It appears to be a thin line given the evidence but if this appeal agrees with the verdict then he cannot keep claiming to have been convicted unfairly and even then saying sorry is never going to be enough. He will always be a criminal and fully deserved his time. If it decides he should not have been convicted of rape do those people wanting him to apologise expect the poor girl/the courts/or the judges to apologise to him and his family too?

[AndrewT]

Bricklayer = generic profession where people can happily earn a living out of the limelight, but don't get paid £20k a week.

We're not going to run out of footballers anytime soon - get rid. H can become a bricklayer or something.

A lot of my family have been bricklayers over the years. I think you should make this comment in front of one of them. See what happens.

They wouldn't misinterpret it like you did?

[bobby1]

Luke McCormick (sp?) is captain of Plymouth - I peronally find that more repellant that Evans, but again he's served his sentence so it's up to Plymouth.

McCormack killed those children by accident.

The accident was caused by his negligence, stupidity and downright disregard for the drink/driving laws.

But it was still an accident when all is said and done.

Ched Evans did not rape this girl by accident.

Huge difference.

So footballers that are 100% criminals have been rehabilitated after serving their sentence when their crime involved killing people.  It is something that everyone convicted of a crime can do if they are sound of mind so why is the Evans incident different Keith?

What difference did it make that he apologised after serving his time for a crime he was 100% guilty of committing?

You seem to have forgiven him for killing people but you are annoyed Ched Evans hasn't said sorry when he is still in the process of appeal?

[bobby1]

We're not going to run out of footballers anytime soon - get rid. H can become a bricklayer or something.

A lot of my family have been bricklayers over the years. I think you should make this comment in front of one of them. See what happens.

honestly bud I think that was just a profession Andrew plucked out of the air.

[The Camel]

Luke McCormick (sp?) is captain of Plymouth - I peronally find that more repellant that Evans, but again he's served his sentence so it's up to Plymouth.

McCormack killed those children by accident.

The accident was caused by his negligence, stupidity and downright disregard for the drink/driving laws.

But it was still an accident when all is said and done.

Ched Evans did not rape this girl by accident.

Huge difference.

So footballers that are 100% criminals have been rehabilitated after serving their sentence when their crime involved killing people.  It is something that everyone convicted of a crime can do if they are sound of mind so why is the Evans incident different Keith?

What difference did it make that he apologised after serving his time for a crime he was 100% guilty of committing?

You seem to have forgiven him for killing people but you are annoyed Ched Evans hasn't said sorry when he is still in the process of appeal?

McCormack killed those children by accident.

It was his fault for sure and he was stupid and negligent but it was an accident.

To my mind there is no way someone who accidentally killed someone (no matter how tragic it is) should be treated as harshly as a rapist.

I would bet a lot of money McCormack will never drink and drive again in his life. if he does, he deserves to go to prison for a very very long time.

You can't rape someone by accident.

If Evans still maintains he is innocent he has not been rehabiltated.

Confronted with the same set of circumstances he is likely to do the same thing again because he doesn't think what he did was wrong. (Well, he wouldn't obv, because he has seen what happens when he does that. But if there was no chance of getting caught he is capable of doing it again).

[bobby1]

If this guy was a Sheff Weds player then Blades fans would be unanimous in their opposition to him playing again.

Anyone who looks on this case in partisan terms is mindboggingly narrow minded.

wow, I'm wondering of that is directed at me or not but I don't really care if he plays for my team ever again but I do strongly believe he should be allowed to go back to work wherever he is offered a job, just like other people that commit crimes do when they have served their time.

As for 'minboggling narrow minded' many people think this is a borderline case. I have expressed points to both side of the discussion and said I think it more likely he is guilty of being a rapist than he isn't. You have steadfastly said he is guilty, what he did was scummy at best and that a man that thinks he is innocent and fighting to clear his name should say sorry ( how will saying sorry change that he is a rapist if the appeal fails anyway), how did you define 'mindbogglingly narrow minded' here?

There are supporters of Sheff Weds and all other football clubs saying things favourable with regard to Evans sentence and if he should be allowed back to work, there will be ones that think he should never be let out and tough shit if he loses his career. There are Sheff Utd fans that think he should never be allowed to play for the club again but some think he should. Are all those that don't have the same opinion as you mindblowingly narrow mined even tho you have only expressed one opinion and are dismissing all the others as being wrong?

[The Camel]

If this guy was a Sheff Weds player then Blades fans would be unanimous in their opposition to him playing again.

Anyone who looks on this case in partisan terms is mindboggingly narrow minded.

wow, I'm wondering of that is directed at me or not but I don't really care if he plays for my team ever again but I do strongly believe he should be allowed to go back to work wherever he is offered a job, just like other people that commit crimes do when they have served their time.

As for 'minboggling narrow minded' many people think this is a borderline case. I have expressed points to both side of the discussion and said I think it more likely he is guilty of being a rapist than he isn't. You have steadfastly said he is guilty, what he did was scummy at best and that a man that thinks he is innocent and fighting to clear his name should say sorry ( how will saying sorry change that he is a rapist if the appeal fails anyway), how did you define 'mindbogglingly narrow minded' here?

There are supporters of Sheff Weds and all other football clubs saying things favourable with regard to Evans sentence and if he should be allowed back to work, there will be ones that think he should never be let out and tough shit if he loses his career. There are Sheff Utd fans that think he should never be allowed to play for the club again but some think he should. Are all those that don't have the same opinion as you mindblowingly narrow mined even tho you have only expressed one opinion and are dismissing all the others as being wrong?

Absolutely not directed at you Phil, I can you see you are struggling to decide whether it is right or wrong for him to return. Which is entirely understandable.

Just seems that I have quite a few Sheff Utd fans as friends on Facebook. And some of their opinions are frankly unbelieveable.

[samurai]

As I said previously I don't have a problem with him working. I wouldn't personally wish to employ a rapist. Would anyone? Why would you.
Whether he's guilty of rape or not, and a jury found him so, his behavior then and that of his supporters since was at best disgusting.Peoples sympathy should be with the girl. She's the real victim not him.

[bobby1]

If this guy was a Sheff Weds player then Blades fans would be unanimous in their opposition to him playing again.

Anyone who looks on this case in partisan terms is mindboggingly narrow minded.

wow, I'm wondering of that is directed at me or not but I don't really care if he plays for my team ever again but I do strongly believe he should be allowed to go back to work wherever he is offered a job, just like other people that commit crimes do when they have served their time.

As for 'minboggling narrow minded' many people think this is a borderline case. I have expressed points to both side of the discussion and said I think it more likely he is guilty of being a rapist than he isn't. You have steadfastly said he is guilty, what he did was scummy at best and that a man that thinks he is innocent and fighting to clear his name should say sorry ( how will saying sorry change that he is a rapist if the appeal fails anyway), how did you define 'mindbogglingly narrow minded' here?

There are supporters of Sheff Weds and all other football clubs saying things favourable with regard to Evans sentence and if he should be allowed back to work, there will be ones that think he should never be let out and tough shit if he loses his career. There are Sheff Utd fans that think he should never be allowed to play for the club again but some think he should. Are all those that don't have the same opinion as you mindblowingly narrow mined even tho you have only expressed one opinion and are dismissing all the others as being wrong?

Absolutely not directed at you Phil, I can you see you are struggling to decide whether it is right or wrong for him to return. Which is entirely understandable.

Just seems that I have quite a few Sheff Utd fans as friends on Facebook. And some of their opinions are frankly unbelieveable.

ok thanks. I haven't seen what's happening on Facebook and it is absolutely disgraceful that the girl has been harassed but almost to a man the Blades fans I have spoken to are very uncomfortable that he might return. Most of them do think he should be allowed to play again and are again very uncomfortable that they know it might be a case of 'well if we don't take him someone will so we might as well take him'

What they do agree about tho is as this doesn't seem to be a very clear cut case( I know he was convicted so was seen as clear cut by people that know a lot more than we do about this) but there doesn't seem to be a lot of overwhelmingly rock solid evidence to convict that could/would appear in undoubted rape cases. The tricky part being that sex had already taken place with the other guy so some signs of forced sex would not show if he had raped her.

Having thought about it I do think it would be much wiser to wait until the appeal is heard because one of the points I think we are on polar opposite sides of is that he could actually have served a sentence for a crime he shouldn't have been convicted of, your side seems more that he was convicted so he has to be guilty.

[buzzharvey22]

Bricklayer = generic profession where people can happily earn a living out of the limelight, but don't get paid £20k a week.

We're not going to run out of footballers anytime soon - get rid. H can become a bricklayer or something.

A lot of my family have been bricklayers over the years. I think you should make this comment in front of one of them. See what happens.

They wouldn't misinterpret it like you did?

Apologies. Looking back I can't possibly believe how I jumped to that conclusion. You should definitely make this comment in front of some builders then, see as how I'm the only person in the world to interpret it like this.

[Waz1892]

As I said previously I don't have a problem with him working. I wouldn't personally wish to employ a rapist. Would anyone? Why would you.
Whether he's guilty of rape or not, and a jury found him so, his behavior then and that of his supporters since was at best disgusting.Peoples sympathy should be with the girl. She's the real victim not him.

What would your (or others peoples) view be if he appeals and it is over-turned?