Ched Evans

[RED-DOG]

How many of the people that believe that he's innocent of any crime do we think will change their view if the judicial review upholds his conviction?

I would like to think that would be the end of it and I would accept he is guilty, I think he is much closer to guilty than innocent at the moment. There is a different side to that tho, If he is found to have been incorrectly jailed how many people that think he is guilty now will change their minds?

There seem to be a lot of people that won't accept there is a chance he was wrongly convicted and are very vocal, in my eyes they have left themselves no outs whatsoever. That includes most of the people making a living/improving their PR by deciding to add their views in print or on TV.

What is happening at the moment tho is he is guilty, has served his prison sentence yet people are trying to stop him from working in an industry where people jailed for killing old men and kids are currently working after serving jail terms. Does that sound fair?

For me anyway it isn't really about Ched Evans. The identity of the rapist is irrelevent.

It's about a moral line in the sand.

Does anyone seriously think a paedo or murderer out on license should be allowed to play professional football?

For me rape crosses that line too. People go to football to get away from real life. Escapism if you like. They do not need an unrepentant rapist performing in front of them.

Lee Hughes and Luke McCormack came very close to crossing that line for me, but what they did was an accident.

You can't rape someone by accident.

If Ched Evans is cleared, go ahead, resume your football career. But while you are still claiming innocence when a jury and then 3 appeal judges say you are guilty, stay away please.

Can I ask you Keith, what do you think Ched should do for a living now?

[DungBeetle]

"Lee Hughes and Luke McCormack came very close to crossing that line for me, but what they did was an accident.

You can't rape someone by accident."

Come on Camel - we've been through this before.

Do you think Evans thought he was raping her at the time?  He didn't force her at knifepoint.  He certainly crossed a line in terms of not checking that the victim was capable of consent, but do you think at the time he thought "I'm going to rape this woman"?  Of course this doesn't mean that he didn't rape her but there are different degrees as reflected by the sentence.

I certainly understand if you draw a line of remorse (McCormick - sort of) and no remorse (Evans - none), but I don't follow this accident v non accident line of argument.

[The Camel]

he was jailed for 12 months and is now out (assuming we are all talking about the same person)

it primarily "broke" and became a "scandal" on facebook, though he did have a few posts on here from live update threads going back over the years

The one I am thinking about posted on here about the case and how he was sorry and how it had ruined his life.

Taking pictures of his stepdaughter in the shower/bath I think was the crime.

Was within the last couple of years I think.

[bookiebasher]

How many of the people that believe that he's innocent of any crime do we think will change their view if the judicial review upholds his conviction?

I would like to think that would be the end of it and I would accept he is guilty, I think he is much closer to guilty than innocent at the moment. There is a different side to that tho, If he is found to have been incorrectly jailed how many people that think he is guilty now will change their minds?

There seem to be a lot of people that won't accept there is a chance he was wrongly convicted and are very vocal, in my eyes they have left themselves no outs whatsoever. That includes most of the people making a living/improving their PR by deciding to add their views in print or on TV.

What is happening at the moment tho is he is guilty, has served his prison sentence yet people are trying to stop him from working in an industry where people jailed for killing old men and kids are currently working after serving jail terms. Does that sound fair?

For me anyway it isn't really about Ched Evans. The identity of the rapist is irrelevent.

It's about a moral line in the sand.

Does anyone seriously think a paedo or murderer out on license should be allowed to play professional football?

For me rape crosses that line too. People go to football to get away from real life. Escapism if you like. They do not need an unrepentant rapist performing in front of them.

Lee Hughes and Luke McCormack came very close to crossing that line for me, but what they did was an accident.

You can't rape someone by accident.

If Ched Evans is cleared, go ahead, resume your football career. But while you are still claiming innocence when a jury and then 3 appeal judges say you are guilty, stay away please.

Was it an accident that he ran away from the scene for 34hours ?

Was it an accident that he got in a car knowing he was over the limit ?

Was it an accident that he left one person dead , others seriously injured and all he could think about was himself ?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/soccer-star-hughes-guilty-of-dangerous-driving-death-charge-6164124.html

I don't believe it should be cast in stone at this point in time that Evans never plays football again.

Here is an article in the Daily mail today and I agree with pretty much everything she has to say.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2898151/The-football-rapist-vile-courts-hand-justice-not-Twitter-mob-writes-MELISSA-KITE.html.

[TightEnd]

he was jailed for 12 months and is now out (assuming we are all talking about the same person)

it primarily "broke" and became a "scandal" on facebook, though he did have a few posts on here from live update threads going back over the years

The one I am thinking about posted on here about the case and how he was sorry and how it had ruined his life.

Taking pictures of his stepdaughter in the shower/bath I think was the crime.

Was within the last couple of years I think.

Yes, same case

[arbboy]

How many of the people that believe that he's innocent of any crime do we think will change their view if the judicial review upholds his conviction?

I would like to think that would be the end of it and I would accept he is guilty, I think he is much closer to guilty than innocent at the moment. There is a different side to that tho, If he is found to have been incorrectly jailed how many people that think he is guilty now will change their minds?

There seem to be a lot of people that won't accept there is a chance he was wrongly convicted and are very vocal, in my eyes they have left themselves no outs whatsoever. That includes most of the people making a living/improving their PR by deciding to add their views in print or on TV.

What is happening at the moment tho is he is guilty, has served his prison sentence yet people are trying to stop him from working in an industry where people jailed for killing old men and kids are currently working after serving jail terms. Does that sound fair?

For me anyway it isn't really about Ched Evans. The identity of the rapist is irrelevent.

It's about a moral line in the sand.

Does anyone seriously think a paedo or murderer out on license should be allowed to play professional football?

For me rape crosses that line too. People go to football to get away from real life. Escapism if you like. They do not need an unrepentant rapist performing in front of them.

Lee Hughes and Luke McCormack came very close to crossing that line for me, but what they did was an accident.

You can't rape someone by accident.

If Ched Evans is cleared, go ahead, resume your football career. But while you are still claiming innocence when a jury and then 3 appeal judges say you are guilty, stay away please.

Was it an accident that he ran away from the scene for 34hours ?

Was it an accident that he got in a car knowing he was over the limit ?

Was it an accident that he left one person dead , others seriously injured and all he could think about was himself ?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/soccer-star-hughes-guilty-of-dangerous-driving-death-charge-6164124.html

I don't believe it should be cast in stone at this point in time that Evans never plays football again.

Here is an article in the Daily mail today and I agree with pretty much everything she has to say.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2898151/The-football-rapist-vile-courts-hand-justice-not-Twitter-mob-writes-MELISSA-KITE.html.

I assume because he was sentenced to a longer sentence than Evans that the courts considered it a more serious crime.  Given the above you would find it hard not to agree with that view.

[The Camel]

How many of the people that believe that he's innocent of any crime do we think will change their view if the judicial review upholds his conviction?

I would like to think that would be the end of it and I would accept he is guilty, I think he is much closer to guilty than innocent at the moment. There is a different side to that tho, If he is found to have been incorrectly jailed how many people that think he is guilty now will change their minds?

There seem to be a lot of people that won't accept there is a chance he was wrongly convicted and are very vocal, in my eyes they have left themselves no outs whatsoever. That includes most of the people making a living/improving their PR by deciding to add their views in print or on TV.

What is happening at the moment tho is he is guilty, has served his prison sentence yet people are trying to stop him from working in an industry where people jailed for killing old men and kids are currently working after serving jail terms. Does that sound fair?

For me anyway it isn't really about Ched Evans. The identity of the rapist is irrelevent.

It's about a moral line in the sand.

Does anyone seriously think a paedo or murderer out on license should be allowed to play professional football?

For me rape crosses that line too. People go to football to get away from real life. Escapism if you like. They do not need an unrepentant rapist performing in front of them.

Lee Hughes and Luke McCormack came very close to crossing that line for me, but what they did was an accident.

You can't rape someone by accident.

If Ched Evans is cleared, go ahead, resume your football career. But while you are still claiming innocence when a jury and then 3 appeal judges say you are guilty, stay away please.

Can I ask you Keith, what do you think Ched should do for a living now?

Assuming guilt?

Well, if he really wanted to be rehabilatated, then going round schools, youth clubs and the like telling adolscent boys about sex crime and how to respect women would be an excellent way of doing it.

If he is unrepentent, then anything away from the public eye would be fine.

I think playing professional sports is a privilige, not a right.

If this was in the USA it wouldn't be an issue. He would be banned by the governing body.

[The Camel]

How many of the people that believe that he's innocent of any crime do we think will change their view if the judicial review upholds his conviction?

I would like to think that would be the end of it and I would accept he is guilty, I think he is much closer to guilty than innocent at the moment. There is a different side to that tho, If he is found to have been incorrectly jailed how many people that think he is guilty now will change their minds?

There seem to be a lot of people that won't accept there is a chance he was wrongly convicted and are very vocal, in my eyes they have left themselves no outs whatsoever. That includes most of the people making a living/improving their PR by deciding to add their views in print or on TV.

What is happening at the moment tho is he is guilty, has served his prison sentence yet people are trying to stop him from working in an industry where people jailed for killing old men and kids are currently working after serving jail terms. Does that sound fair?

For me anyway it isn't really about Ched Evans. The identity of the rapist is irrelevent.

It's about a moral line in the sand.

Does anyone seriously think a paedo or murderer out on license should be allowed to play professional football?

For me rape crosses that line too. People go to football to get away from real life. Escapism if you like. They do not need an unrepentant rapist performing in front of them.

Lee Hughes and Luke McCormack came very close to crossing that line for me, but what they did was an accident.

You can't rape someone by accident.

If Ched Evans is cleared, go ahead, resume your football career. But while you are still claiming innocence when a jury and then 3 appeal judges say you are guilty, stay away please.

Was it an accident that he ran away from the scene for 34hours ?

Was it an accident that he got in a car knowing he was over the limit ?

Was it an accident that he left one person dead , others seriously injured and all he could think about was himself ?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/soccer-star-hughes-guilty-of-dangerous-driving-death-charge-6164124.html

I don't believe it should be cast in stone at this point in time that Evans never plays football again.

Here is an article in the Daily mail today and I agree with pretty much everything she has to say.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2898151/The-football-rapist-vile-courts-hand-justice-not-Twitter-mob-writes-MELISSA-KITE.html.

I assume because he was sentenced to a long sentence than Evans that the courts considered it a more serious crime.  Given the above you would find it hard not to agree with that view.

I think we went through all this on about page 4 of the thread.

Anyone who gets behind the wheel of a car having drunk the same amount LM drank could have killed those children.

Giving him 7 years in prison and someone who didn't kill 2 kids an 18 month driving ban is results orientated thinking.

If we put everyone behind bars for 6 weeks who is caught drink/driving, it would cut this crime down by 90%+.

And if that law had been in place before LM drank and drove, they probably would still be alive today.

[The Camel]

How many of the people that believe that he's innocent of any crime do we think will change their view if the judicial review upholds his conviction?

I would like to think that would be the end of it and I would accept he is guilty, I think he is much closer to guilty than innocent at the moment. There is a different side to that tho, If he is found to have been incorrectly jailed how many people that think he is guilty now will change their minds?

There seem to be a lot of people that won't accept there is a chance he was wrongly convicted and are very vocal, in my eyes they have left themselves no outs whatsoever. That includes most of the people making a living/improving their PR by deciding to add their views in print or on TV.

What is happening at the moment tho is he is guilty, has served his prison sentence yet people are trying to stop him from working in an industry where people jailed for killing old men and kids are currently working after serving jail terms. Does that sound fair?

For me anyway it isn't really about Ched Evans. The identity of the rapist is irrelevent.

It's about a moral line in the sand.

Does anyone seriously think a paedo or murderer out on license should be allowed to play professional football?

For me rape crosses that line too. People go to football to get away from real life. Escapism if you like. They do not need an unrepentant rapist performing in front of them.

Lee Hughes and Luke McCormack came very close to crossing that line for me, but what they did was an accident.

You can't rape someone by accident.

If Ched Evans is cleared, go ahead, resume your football career. But while you are still claiming innocence when a jury and then 3 appeal judges say you are guilty, stay away please.

Was it an accident that he ran away from the scene for 34hours ?

Was it an accident that he got in a car knowing he was over the limit ?

Was it an accident that he left one person dead , others seriously injured and all he could think about was himself ?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/soccer-star-hughes-guilty-of-dangerous-driving-death-charge-6164124.html

I don't believe it should be cast in stone at this point in time that Evans never plays football again.

Here is an article in the Daily mail today and I agree with pretty much everything she has to say.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2898151/The-football-rapist-vile-courts-hand-justice-not-Twitter-mob-writes-MELISSA-KITE.html.

The thing is I don't buy this "twitter mob" theory. It is a handy excuse used by Evans's apologists.

I think the vast majority of law abiding, decent people who go to football matches every Saturday afternoon wouldn't want a rapist playing for their team.

[arbboy]

i will happily take evens he plays a senior football match for a club in the uk if anyone has a strong view he won't.

[DungBeetle]

It's a line of argument that can be taken, but effectively all you are saying is that you think you are right and the judicial system is wrong.  On face value, looking at lengths of sentences as an indicator of how serious a crime is, is a better way of judging what society thinks than us applying your own personal scale?

[The Camel]

It's a line of argument that can be taken, but effectively all you are saying is that you think you are right and the judicial system is wrong.  On face value, looking at lengths of sentences as an indicator of how serious a crime is, is a better way of judging what society thinks than us applying your own personal scale?

My moral code is just that. Mine.

I think rape is more serious crime than causing death by driving while intoxicated.

I don't expect anyone to agree or disagree, because it is just my opinion.

[horseplayer]

If Twitter was more prevalent when Hughes and Lm did what they did they would not have got back into football as quick as they did

[RED-DOG]

How many of the people that believe that he's innocent of any crime do we think will change their view if the judicial review upholds his conviction?

I would like to think that would be the end of it and I would accept he is guilty, I think he is much closer to guilty than innocent at the moment. There is a different side to that tho, If he is found to have been incorrectly jailed how many people that think he is guilty now will change their minds?

There seem to be a lot of people that won't accept there is a chance he was wrongly convicted and are very vocal, in my eyes they have left themselves no outs whatsoever. That includes most of the people making a living/improving their PR by deciding to add their views in print or on TV.

What is happening at the moment tho is he is guilty, has served his prison sentence yet people are trying to stop him from working in an industry where people jailed for killing old men and kids are currently working after serving jail terms. Does that sound fair?

For me anyway it isn't really about Ched Evans. The identity of the rapist is irrelevent.

It's about a moral line in the sand.

Does anyone seriously think a paedo or murderer out on license should be allowed to play professional football?

For me rape crosses that line too. People go to football to get away from real life. Escapism if you like. They do not need an unrepentant rapist performing in front of them.

Lee Hughes and Luke McCormack came very close to crossing that line for me, but what they did was an accident.

You can't rape someone by accident.

If Ched Evans is cleared, go ahead, resume your football career. But while you are still claiming innocence when a jury and then 3 appeal judges say you are guilty, stay away please.

Can I ask you Keith, what do you think Ched should do for a living now?

Assuming guilt?

Well, if he really wanted to be rehabilatated, then going round schools, youth clubs and the like telling adolscent boys about sex crime and how to respect women would be an excellent way of doing it.

If he is unrepentent, then anything away from the public eye would be fine.

I think playing professional sports is a privilige, not a right.

If this was in the USA it wouldn't be an issue. He would be banned by the governing body.

So he's OK to tell adolescent boys how to respect women but not to play football?

Lol.

[The Camel]

If Twitter was more prevalent when Hughes and Lm did what they did they would not have got back into football as quick as they did

You might well be right.

I think people have taken a personal dislike to Evans and that is why many people are determined to stop him getting back into football.

If he had been apologetic from the start, admitted his crime and offered to do community work in the field of preventing sex crime, I think he would be playing football by now.

But I also think his gf would have dumped him and with that the funding for the "Ched Evans is Inoocent" campaign would have disappeared.