Interesting hand from GPS Edinburgh

[Derbylad]

I think the line you've taken you should be more inclined to Jam the river. If the villain would anticipate you'd bet any AdXd hand in position on the flop it gives larger credit to jamming an AdX hand as a bluff on the river, therefore, he's way more probable to level himself into a call than you are of getting an overcall.

[muckthenuts]

I really don't think anybody who is thinking is going to think a river raise is anything but the nuts here. I would say even if Camel was an unknown 90% of blondes would fold a KdXd flush here. It just depends on the experience level of the players on your table. To be fair so multiway so early on in a GPS there is a good chance of being called like how Arbboy said.

[cambridgealex]

I really don't think anybody who is thinking is going to think a river raise is anything but the nuts here. I would say even if Camel was an unknown 90% of blondes would fold a KdXd flush here. It just depends on the experience level of the players on your table. To be fair so multiway so early on in a GPS there is a good chance of being up against someone like Arbboy.

fyp

(Was a setup sorry had to get there first)

[DMorgan]

I like your line and jam river, yes your hand can stand a raise on the flop but if you are up against a set, a made straight (possibly even a hand like   vs some) you're likely to get raised pretty big, then when you just call and want to start ploughing money in on diamonds your hand is pretty face up. I think by betting the flop you set yourself up for a pretty bad situation on the turn if you get raised big on the flop a face a big barrel on a blank turn.

Say you bet 1800 into 3500 on the flop, get raised to ~6k and call you're looking at a 15.5k pot on the turn with 17k back and you have to fold to any reasonable sized bet on a blank turn which is an absolute disaster when you have this much equity.

Its a concept that comes up a lot in PLO and I think is pretty applicable here, when you have a nut draw in a multiway pot its so important to realise your equity because your implied odds are massive, especially in these live tournaments where players tend to be pretty sticky. Against 6 other players on a very coordinated flop I'd just rather let the draws that we dominate get there because I don't really rate our chances of winning this pot very often without improving

[Derbylad]

I really don't think anybody who is thinking is going to think a river raise is anything but the nuts here. I would say even if Camel was an unknown 90% of blondes would fold a KdXd flush here. It just depends on the experience level of the players on your table. To be fair so multiway so early on in a GPS there is a good chance of being called like how Arbboy said.

So somebody who's thinking wouldn't ever consider you had the ability to bluff an AdX hand in this spot after the line you've taken? You're working under the assumption that the player is always capable of folding KdXd. Unless you have some strong reasoning for not trying to get maximum value I don't see how you can't jam the river.

[cambridgealex]

I like your line and jam river, yes your hand can stand a raise on the flop but if you are up against a set, a made straight (possibly even a hand like  vs some) you're likely to get raised pretty big, then when you just call and want to start ploughing money in on diamonds your hand is pretty face up. I think by betting the flop you set yourself up for a pretty bad situation on the turn if you get raised big on the flop a face a big barrel on a blank turn.

Say you bet 1800 into 3500 on the flop, get raised to ~6k and call you're looking at a 15.5k pot on the turn with 17k back and you have to fold to any reasonable sized bet on a blank turn which is an absolute disaster when you have this much equity.

Its a concept that comes up a lot in PLO and I think is pretty applicable here, when you have a nut draw in a multiway pot its so important to realise your equity because your implied odds are massive, especially in these live tournaments where players tend to be pretty sticky. Against 6 other players on a very coordinated flop I'd just rather let the draws that we dominate get there because I don't really rate our chances of winning this pot very often without improving

Very convincing argument.

[pleno1]

yeh would bet flop real small to get hands like TJo to fold which share equity with us or just check. When we get to the river people can be convinced we're using a blocker more often and discount value combos from our range, although live this is not such a big thing ofc, having to fold this on the turn would suck.

[Sulphur man]

Interesting hand especially with so the number of players in the pot.
Personally I like the call on the turn its the river spot in this hand
that seems key. Jam here does seem like the play have to agree.
Can see the merits of calling. We jam and either don't have to show
our hand or the other player lumps it in. You never know.

[rfgqqabc]

I like your line and jam river, yes your hand can stand a raise on the flop but if you are up against a set, a made straight (possibly even a hand like   vs some) you're likely to get raised pretty big, then when you just call and want to start ploughing money in on diamonds your hand is pretty face up. I think by betting the flop you set yourself up for a pretty bad situation on the turn if you get raised big on the flop a face a big barrel on a blank turn.

Say you bet 1800 into 3500 on the flop, get raised to ~6k and call you're looking at a 15.5k pot on the turn with 17k back and you have to fold to any reasonable sized bet on a blank turn which is an absolute disaster when you have this much equity.

Its a concept that comes up a lot in PLO and I think is pretty applicable here, when you have a nut draw in a multiway pot its so important to realise your equity because your implied odds are massive, especially in these live tournaments where players tend to be pretty sticky. Against 6 other players on a very coordinated flop I'd just rather let the draws that we dominate get there because I don't really rate our chances of winning this pot very often without improving

Very solid post. Completely agree.

Not sure how relevant plenos point about betting the flop so people think we're using a blocker means much at all when we are 6 ways in a live comp. Overestimating the amount of equity JTo shares 6 ways on 34d5d esp when we have A9dd too.

[pleno1]

I like your line and jam river, yes your hand can stand a raise on the flop but if you are up against a set, a made straight (possibly even a hand like   vs some) you're likely to get raised pretty big, then when you just call and want to start ploughing money in on diamonds your hand is pretty face up. I think by betting the flop you set yourself up for a pretty bad situation on the turn if you get raised big on the flop a face a big barrel on a blank turn.

Say you bet 1800 into 3500 on the flop, get raised to ~6k and call you're looking at a 15.5k pot on the turn with 17k back and you have to fold to any reasonable sized bet on a blank turn which is an absolute disaster when you have this much equity.

Its a concept that comes up a lot in PLO and I think is pretty applicable here, when you have a nut draw in a multiway pot its so important to realise your equity because your implied odds are massive, especially in these live tournaments where players tend to be pretty sticky. Against 6 other players on a very coordinated flop I'd just rather let the draws that we dominate get there because I don't really rate our chances of winning this pot very often without improving

Very solid post. Completely agree.

Not sure how relevant plenos point about betting the flop so people think we're using a blocker means much at all when we are 6 ways in a live comp. Overestimating the amount of equity JTo shares 6 ways on 34d5d esp when we have A9dd too.

although live this is not such a big thing ofc

[pleno1]

And it's not just exactly jto vs our hand but there's 6 hands out there's a good chance that one of then turns a pair that won't fold and ends up winning when everybody knuckles or turns some kind of equity that they want to bet twice with as a bluff or bet once as a bluff then river a pair etc etc etc

[rfgqqabc]

And it's not just exactly jto vs our hand but there's 6 hands out there's a good chance that one of then turns a pair that won't fold and ends up winning when everybody knuckles or turns some kind of equity that they want to bet twice with as a bluff or bet once as a bluff then river a pair etc etc etc

Going X ways we need to be comfortable knowing we won't win the pot all the time and accept that though. We aren't worried about the random 1pr turns because we are naturally protected by everyone else in the hand and have a draw to the nuts.

 When you write not such a big thing and I feel it is in no way relevant to this comp we still differ quite a lot! Blocker won't even have been heard of by most of the players. Its more likely someone will not give you credit for having a big flush because you checked the button then the thought of  blocker even occurring.

[SuuPRlim]

hmmmm good post Dan.