2015 Genting Poker Series

[DTD-ACES]

I didn't want to clash with GUKPT. This was the ONLY week that Rob could agree with WPT due to their commitments at WPT Paris and WPT Prague. We have done 3 back to 2000 entry events, Grand Prix, WPT Warm Up and WPT 500,  been a long 3 weeks and WPT Main not even started yet! Cheers Aces

[relaedgc]

I don't work on the GUKPT any more, but I am 99.9% confident that they're not going to reduce the guarantee going in to 2015.

The Blackpool leg of the GUKPT/UK Open/Northern Lights has always been a massive fixture for UK poker and I suspect Grosvenor weren't prepared to back down over a date that they've consistently booked in for years - especially when they're probably the first operator to release their schedule.

It's difficult with the volume of events in the UK to find a free weekend. That being said, I still think it's a little disappointing that both the Goliath and GUKPT Blackpool - both of which have become staple fixtures of the GUKPT events calendar aren't left in peace.

Sadly, as you can see with what Genting have done - the outcome is that operators will just stop committing themselves to the financial risk and play it safe. For those operating a sustainable business model, the inadvertent side effect is the poker community lose out.

What should happen is that these guys all sit down together and ensure that no one is treading on the toes of the others. It's not that difficult. Grosvenor, Genting, Pokerstars and DTD. Any other external event hosting organization that wants to host in the UK is going to have to go through one of these operators. They can ask for whatever date they want - but it can only happen if it's allowed to happen. What they should do is say, "We can do it on X, Y or Z. We can't clash." What are they going to do? Not run the event? I don't believe it. They want the revenue as much as the operator does. They'll make it happen somehow.

Having the WPT might be revenue now. But when you risk alienating other operators and it ends up costing you X amount of overlay for the next decade - I don't really see how it's commercially viable. I am not saying that's going to happen, of course - and I don't want that to sound like it's an implication. It just seems to me that what happened this weekend cannot be good for the long term future of UK poker.

[KarmaDope]

It's difficult with the volume of events in the UK to find a free weekend. That being said, I still think it's a little disappointing that both the Goliath and GUKPT Blackpool - both of which have become staple fixtures of the GUKPT events calendar aren't left in peace.

GUKPT Blackpool I can understand. But the Goliath I dont. That destroyed the APAT Worlds, which always used to be the Bank Holiday weekend in August until the Goliath decided they wanted to hijack that weekend.

[arbboy]

It's difficult with the volume of events in the UK to find a free weekend. That being said, I still think it's a little disappointing that both the Goliath and GUKPT Blackpool - both of which have become staple fixtures of the GUKPT events calendar aren't left in peace.

GUKPT Blackpool I can understand. But the Goliath I dont. That destroyed the APAT Worlds, which always used to be the Bank Holiday weekend in August until the Goliath decided they wanted to hijack that weekend.

It's difficult with the volume of events in the UK to find a free weekend. That being said, I still think it's a little disappointing that both the Goliath and GUKPT Blackpool - both of which have become staple fixtures of the GUKPT events calendar aren't left in peace.

GUKPT Blackpool I can understand. But the Goliath I dont. That destroyed the APAT Worlds, which always used to be the Bank Holiday weekend in August until the Goliath decided they wanted to hijack that weekend.

Dtd is single handedly taking on the big two in the uk and crushing them.  Gukpt Walsall doesn't even exist next year as a direct result of dtd in the last five years killing that card room due to being located within an hour of it.  Stoke gentings card room has been crushed in a similar manor.

Dtd online sats destroy the big two in the uk's efforts to qualify players for big events for small cost and over the past three years has slowly been eating into their market share. In 2014 grosv and genting look like they are basically given up trying to compete with dtd with their schedules for next year and gtd's.

[verndog158]

It's difficult with the volume of events in the UK to find a free weekend. That being said, I still think it's a little disappointing that both the Goliath and GUKPT Blackpool - both of which have become staple fixtures of the GUKPT events calendar aren't left in peace.

GUKPT Blackpool I can understand. But the Goliath I dont. That destroyed the APAT Worlds, which always used to be the Bank Holiday weekend in August until the Goliath decided they wanted to hijack that weekend.

It's difficult with the volume of events in the UK to find a free weekend. That being said, I still think it's a little disappointing that both the Goliath and GUKPT Blackpool - both of which have become staple fixtures of the GUKPT events calendar aren't left in peace.

GUKPT Blackpool I can understand. But the Goliath I dont. That destroyed the APAT Worlds, which always used to be the Bank Holiday weekend in August until the Goliath decided they wanted to hijack that weekend.

Dtd is single handedly taking on the big two in the uk and crushing them.  Gukpt Walsall doesn't even exist next year as a direct result of dtd in the last five years killing that card room due to being located within an hour of it.  Stoke gentings card room has been crushed in a similar manor.

Dtd online sats destroy the big two in the uk's efforts to qualify players for big events for small cost and over the past three years has slowly been eating into their market share. In 2014 grosv and genting look like they are basically given up trying to compete with dtd with their schedules for next year and gtd's.

surely its just natural competition though? gros and genting have to up their games to compete with dtd. lets be honest, if the WPTetc comes to Rob and says we have the biggest festival in the UK ever, but we can only do it in the first 3 weeks of november, do u really expect the powers that be to turn down such a chance? same way if that was offered to genting they wouldnt turn it down

[relaedgc]

This has always been my argument about DTD.

As fantastic as it is, you can't honestly expect a company to do what they're doing. What business in their right mind is going to throw away £8,000,000?

It's value for players, yes. But it isn't commercially viable as a business. I might be completely wrong and as a business they've turned the corner and they are now a sustainable enterprise - but I have always looked at Rob Yong from a business perspective and thought of him as a maniac. No disrespect to the man intended.

Yes, he has rightly raised the bar for poker and from an objective stand point I think that it's fantastic in principle. But big business doesn't think that way. They are looking at the bottom line. They don't think it's healthy or sustainable. They'll just wait for it to burn out and when the landscape has two operators as opposed to three operators, they aren't going to have to compete in the same sense that they are now.

Which is my point. The competition is good - but that's exactly the reason why you need three fish swimming in the pond instead of one or two.

That's why I think collaboration is key. If the events are locked in and held sacrosanct, then any external forces have to fit in to the margins allowed them. I don't know the answer to this, and I am not being cryptic - but if the WPT really had to happen and it was absolutely impossible to do anything then I would be on the phone and saying, "Russell. I have got something I simply cannot refuse and I have to run it X to Y. I don't want to sting you for tens of thousands of pounds. I would just like to say in advance that I think moving Blackpool might be a good idea."

Did that happen? It may well have done. I just think these guys need to work together a little bit - because if they don't then in my opinion the real loser isn't the operators. It's you.

[The Camel]

Holland Casinos moved their MCOP back two weeks just because one their players made the WSOP FT.

That is much bigger event than the GUKPT Blackpool

If they can do it, so could Grosvenor.

[pleno1]

loved playing GUKPT, probably the best live tournament I've played in, in terms of friendlyness, conversations, no headphones almost at all etc.

will strive to support the tour whenever im in england.

[redarmi]

This has always been my argument about DTD.

As fantastic as it is, you can't honestly expect a company to do what they're doing. What business in their right mind is going to throw away £8,000,000?

It's value for players, yes. But it isn't commercially viable as a business. I might be completely wrong and as a business they've turned the corner and they are now a sustainable enterprise - but I have always looked at Rob Yong from a business perspective and thought of him as a maniac. No disrespect to the man intended.

Yes, he has rightly raised the bar for poker and from an objective stand point I think that it's fantastic in principle. But big business doesn't think that way. They are looking at the bottom line. They don't think it's healthy or sustainable. They'll just wait for it to burn out and when the landscape has two operators as opposed to three operators, they aren't going to have to compete in the same sense that they are now.

Which is my point. The competition is good - but that's exactly the reason why you need three fish swimming in the pond instead of one or two.

That's why I think collaboration is key. If the events are locked in and held sacrosanct, then any external forces have to fit in to the margins allowed them. I don't know the answer to this, and I am not being cryptic - but if the WPT really had to happen and it was absolutely impossible to do anything then I would be on the phone and saying, "Russell. I have got something I simply cannot refuse and I have to run it X to Y. I don't want to sting you for tens of thousands of pounds. I would just like to say in advance that I think moving Blackpool might be a good idea."

Did that happen? It may well have done. I just think these guys need to work together a little bit - because if they don't then in my opinion the real loser isn't the operators. It's you.

Surely collaboration in that sense is very close to operating as a cartel.  What next all deciding to put the rake up together?

[relaedgc]

I don't understand why you come away from a post about collaboration and come back with corruption.

Do me a favour. The operators that are happy to mug off the players are already doing it. Pokerstars do what they want and people still pay 10% plus have their prizepools raked on top of that. How do you expect it to get worse?

There's still competition. People can't afford to play every event - but it behoves the operators to attempt some transparency in their intentions. Else wise some of them will just stop making the effort in the first place.

If, for example, it was just pokerstars left - do you think they'd still be inclined to be more or less competitive in their rates than they are currently? Please look at what they are doing online as a tool to assist in reaching a conclusion.

Edit - for typo corrections only. No content added.

[George2Loose]

Whereas Grosvenor are the robin hood of casinos in comparison....

[relaedgc]

I am not aware that they have got a bad name in the poker industry, but it's entirely plausible that I am mistaken.

Happy to be educated. I like to hear and understand the perceptions of others.

[George2Loose]

I am not aware that they have got a bad name in the poker industry, but it's entirely plausible that I am mistaken.

Happy to be educated. I like to hear and understand the perceptions of others.

Not so much a bad name it's just when you post it's never objective and always with bias toward Grosvenor which I understand because you work for them.

Personally I don't give a shit whether rob is a "maniac" when it comes to business. If it wasn't for Dtd you probably wouldn't have huge guarantees on comps/2525 series plus numerous deepstack events for grass root players and the great structures we now see offered on all the tours.

[arbboy]

This has always been my argument about DTD.

As fantastic as it is, you can't honestly expect a company to do what they're doing. What business in their right mind is going to throw away £8,000,000?

It's value for players, yes. But it isn't commercially viable as a business. I might be completely wrong and as a business they've turned the corner and they are now a sustainable enterprise - but I have always looked at Rob Yong from a business perspective and thought of him as a maniac. No disrespect to the man intended.

Yes, he has rightly raised the bar for poker and from an objective stand point I think that it's fantastic in principle. But big business doesn't think that way. They are looking at the bottom line. They don't think it's healthy or sustainable. They'll just wait for it to burn out and when the landscape has two operators as opposed to three operators, they aren't going to have to compete in the same sense that they are now.

Which is my point. The competition is good - but that's exactly the reason why you need three fish swimming in the pond instead of one or two.

That's why I think collaboration is key. If the events are locked in and held sacrosanct, then any external forces have to fit in to the margins allowed them. I don't know the answer to this, and I am not being cryptic - but if the WPT really had to happen and it was absolutely impossible to do anything then I would be on the phone and saying, "Russell. I have got something I simply cannot refuse and I have to run it X to Y. I don't want to sting you for tens of thousands of pounds. I would just like to say in advance that I think moving Blackpool might be a good idea."

Did that happen? It may well have done. I just think these guys need to work together a little bit - because if they don't then in my opinion the real loser isn't the operators. It's you.

It's hard to believe how blind to the pay master you are when you post under your own name.  You talk about working together and collaboration but there was no mention of this when grosv thought dtd were just a fly by night operation in circa 2006 and spent a year and cost rob millions to try and send him busto during the planning stage through the courts.  This is never mentioned but I am sure certain figures will have enjoyed knowing the middle buy in wpt event of the 3 main events was going to clash with gukpt Blackpool (which is the only buy in event of the whole three week wpt festival which is direct competition to a £1k established  gukpt mainstay event.  Whether it was deliberate or not I don't know but if someone offered me a free bet on whether it was or not I think I know which side I would be backing.

  The only time you and your firm think there should be an element of team work is now dtd have blown your sorry arse (100% reactive not proactive in the last 5 years - Goliath only exists because you were losing punters hand over fist to the dtd Grand Prix and the 25/25 because the GPS undercut your main tour product and you started losing bigger staking punters as the recession deepened and people were less inclined to pay a grand for a live mtt) poker product out of the water and you are playing clear 2nd fiddle after years of dominating live uk poker.  It's become so bad that your 2nd biggest card room in your estate 10 years ago (Walsall) has been crushed so badly by dtd that it doesn't even have a gukpt leg at all next year which is quite amazing.

[Doobs]

This has always been my argument about DTD.

As fantastic as it is, you can't honestly expect a company to do what they're doing. What business in their right mind is going to throw away £8,000,000?

It's value for players, yes. But it isn't commercially viable as a business. I might be completely wrong and as a business they've turned the corner and they are now a sustainable enterprise - but I have always looked at Rob Yong from a business perspective and thought of him as a maniac. No disrespect to the man intended.

Yes, he has rightly raised the bar for poker and from an objective stand point I think that it's fantastic in principle. But big business doesn't think that way. They are looking at the bottom line. They don't think it's healthy or sustainable. They'll just wait for it to burn out and when the landscape has two operators as opposed to three operators, they aren't going to have to compete in the same sense that they are now.

Which is my point. The competition is good - but that's exactly the reason why you need three fish swimming in the pond instead of one or two.

That's why I think collaboration is key. If the events are locked in and held sacrosanct, then any external forces have to fit in to the margins allowed them. I don't know the answer to this, and I am not being cryptic - but if the WPT really had to happen and it was absolutely impossible to do anything then I would be on the phone and saying, "Russell. I have got something I simply cannot refuse and I have to run it X to Y. I don't want to sting you for tens of thousands of pounds. I would just like to say in advance that I think moving Blackpool might be a good idea."

Did that happen? It may well have done. I just think these guys need to work together a little bit - because if they don't then in my opinion the real loser isn't the operators. It's you.

It's hard to believe how blind to the pay master you are when you post under your own name.  You talk about working together and collaboration but there was no mention of this when grosv thought dtd were just a fly by night operation in circa 2006 and spent a year and cost rob millions to try and send him busto during the planning stage through the courts.  This is never mentioned but I am sure certain figures will have enjoyed knowing the middle buy in wpt event of the 3 main events was going to clash with gukpt Blackpool (which is the only buy in event of the whole three week wpt festival which is direct competition to a £1k established  gukpt mainstay event.  Whether it was deliberate or not I don't know but if someone offered me a free bet on whether it was or not I think I know which side I would be backing.

  The only time you and your firm think there should be an element of team work is now dtd have blown your sorry arse (100% reactive not proactive in the last 5 years - Goliath only exists because you were losing punters hand over fist to the dtd Grand Prix and the 25/25 because the GPS undercut your main tour product and you started losing bigger staking punters as the recession deepened and people were less inclined to pay a grand for a live mtt) poker product out of the water and you are playing clear 2nd fiddle after years of dominating live uk poker.  It's become so bad that your 2nd biggest card room in your estate 10 years ago (Walsall) has been crushed so badly by dtd that it doesn't even have a gukpt leg at all next year which is quite amazing.

Would have been a good argument if Grovesnor were one of those that objected.  The objectors were Stanley, Gala and London Clubs International.   Probably why it is never mentioned!