nlo8

[willrobrobu]

i get 45% equity on a dodgy iphone app i just downloaded with first (admittedly sl rigged to be favourable) set of hands i put in:

- 45%
- 30%
  - 25%

[willrobrobu]

i called and lost the lot in actual game.

PokerStars Hand #125382341494: Tournament #1043255687, $5.00+$0.50 USD Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit - Level VII (50/100) - 2014/11/19 12:00:53 WET [2014/11/19 7:00:53 ET]
Table '1043255687 3' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: FRED RUSSO (1441 in chips)
Seat 2: eFKa_13 (4088 in chips)
Seat 3: Acho88 (5025 in chips)
Seat 6: willrobrobu (8048 in chips)
Seat 7: gomer7777 (2500 in chips)
Seat 8: hunni a.d. (1725 in chips)
FRED RUSSO: posts the ante 10
eFKa_13: posts the ante 10
Acho88: posts the ante 10
willrobrobu: posts the ante 10
gomer7777: posts the ante 10
hunni a.d.: posts the ante 10
Acho88: posts small blind 50
willrobrobu: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to willrobrobu [ ]
gomer7777: folds
hunni a.d.: raises 1615 to 1715 and is all-in
FRED RUSSO: calls 1431 and is all-in
eFKa_13: folds
Acho88: folds
willrobrobu: calls 1615
*** FLOP *** [ ]
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
willrobrobu: shows [ ] (HI: a pair of Kings)
hunni a.d.: shows [ Ah] (HI: a full house, Threes full of Aces)
hunni a.d. collected 568 from side pot
FRED RUSSO: shows [ As ] (HI: a full house, Threes full of Aces)
hunni a.d. collected 2202 from main pot
FRED RUSSO collected 2201 from main pot
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4971 Main pot 4403. Side pot 568. | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: FRED RUSSO showed [ As ] and won (2201) with HI: a full house, Threes full of Aces
Seat 2: eFKa_13 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Acho88 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: willrobrobu (big blind) showed [ ] and lost with HI: a pair of Kings
Seat 7: gomer7777 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: hunni a.d. showed [ Ah] and won (2770) with HI: a full house, Threes full of Aces

[tikay]

I've been playing a few nlo8 turbo mtts recently and just educated guessing at wtf to do. I wouldn't even think about calling here.

Ahh, it never crossed my mind that this was a Turbo, guess that widens ranges even further.

Even so, I could never get comfy calling with a hand like that for 17 Bigs though.

Doobsy seems to do quite well at NLO8 Turbos, maybe he'll have a better idea.

I'd definitely fold here, but think it is absolutely fine for calling/shoving heads up with something like 10BBs.  Double suits make a big difference. 

Good hand for tilting those fresh from PLO8 too.

Will pop up the link to the best equity site later, sure Adam can help if he is around.

I can manage the shove part, just about!

It'd not tilt me, good Lord no, but I'd deffo raise an eyebrow & make a new note on the Villain......

Heads up in NLO8 he should be shoving a large range off 10BBs, hence anything double suited with a low draw should be good enough for the low 40s% equity we need to call.

Yup, but thats different to a stone cold call for 17 Bigs, imo.

[tikay]

i called and lost the lot in actual game.

PokerStars Hand #125382341494: Tournament #1043255687, $5.00+$0.50 USD Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit - Level VII (50/100) - 2014/11/19 12:00:53 WET [2014/11/19 7:00:53 ET]
Table '1043255687 3' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: FRED RUSSO (1441 in chips)
Seat 2: eFKa_13 (4088 in chips)
Seat 3: Acho88 (5025 in chips)
Seat 6: willrobrobu (8048 in chips)
Seat 7: gomer7777 (2500 in chips)
Seat 8: hunni a.d. (1725 in chips)
FRED RUSSO: posts the ante 10
eFKa_13: posts the ante 10
Acho88: posts the ante 10
willrobrobu: posts the ante 10
gomer7777: posts the ante 10
hunni a.d.: posts the ante 10
Acho88: posts small blind 50
willrobrobu: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to willrobrobu [ ]
gomer7777: folds
hunni a.d.: raises 1615 to 1715 and is all-in
FRED RUSSO: calls 1431 and is all-in
eFKa_13: folds
Acho88: folds
willrobrobu: calls 1615
*** FLOP *** [ ]
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
willrobrobu: shows [ ] (HI: a pair of Kings)
hunni a.d.: shows [ Ah] (HI: a full house, Threes full of Aces)
hunni a.d. collected 568 from side pot
FRED RUSSO: shows [ As ] (HI: a full house, Threes full of Aces)
hunni a.d. collected 2202 from main pot
FRED RUSSO collected 2201 from main pot
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4971 Main pot 4403. Side pot 568. | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: FRED RUSSO showed [ As ] and won (2201) with HI: a full house, Threes full of Aces
Seat 2: eFKa_13 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Acho88 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: willrobrobu (big blind) showed [ ] and lost with HI: a pair of Kings
Seat 7: gomer7777 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: hunni a.d. showed [ Ah] and won (2770) with HI: a full house, Threes full of Aces

That was, to be fair, a really brutal flop for your hand.

But if it comes low-low-low, you'd probably be in just as much trouble.

[Oxford_HRV]

wp for gii with over 40% equity. ul.

[Doobs]

wp for gii with over 40% equity. ul.

Surely the 40% equity is as results orientated as the fact he lost the hand?  Against proper ranges 40% can't be the right answer. 

[willrobrobu]

wp for gii with over 40% equity. ul.

Surely the 40% equity is as results orientated as the fact he lost the hand?  Against proper ranges 40% can't be the right answer. 

absolutely. im not sayingi have 45% equity vs their entire ranges. but when their ranges are both heavily weighted towards a2xx where xx= ATC i wouldnt be surprised to see an overall equity of above 33%, presumably we need sl less than that to make the call from the bb?

[Oxford_HRV]

wp for gii with over 40% equity. ul.

Surely the 40% equity is as results orientated as the fact he lost the hand?  Against proper ranges 40% can't be the right answer.  

huh? he got it in with over 40% which i am really surprised to see. i meant in such a way where i was implying it must be nice.

we will never be significant fav's vs two A2xx hands or even get over 40% but this hand will still be good enough nearly all of the time to hold its own 3 way.

[Doobs]

wp for gii with over 40% equity. ul.

Surely the 40% equity is as results orientated as the fact he lost the hand?  Against proper ranges 40% can't be the right answer. 

absolutely. im not sayingi have 45% equity vs their entire ranges. but when their ranges are both heavily weighted towards a2xx where xx= ATC i wouldnt be surprised to see an overall equity of above 33%, presumably we need sl less than that to make the call from the bb?

Marginal shove, bad call, bad call is my instinct.  Can't prove it now though.  Will have a look after work and get that link for you.  I think A223 is probably the worst call here.  The first shove is probably ok, but would much prefer a king, queen or big pair to go with my A2.

[rfgqqabc]

Propokertools.com

On kindle so can't do myself easyily. I'd fold without much thought. Too hard to scoop

[tikay]

Propokertools.com

On kindle so can't do myself easyily. I'd fold without much thought. Too hard to scoop

That's my gut & immediate feel, too, though I have no statistical evidence to back it up. We play to SCOOP.

I think assuming the other two are weighted towards A-2-Low-Low hands is a mistake, surely we should assume a better balanced range, A-2-3/Paint, A-2/Paint/Paint, A-2/High Pair.

I'm as nitty as nitty can be, but I can happily gii with any High-Low Combo that includes A-2-K.  I just can't get my head round middle-middle-middle-middle, as its is so hard to scoop.

Interesting thread.

[Ironside]

I would insta fold, might shove sb if folded to me

[Doobs]

I have had a mess round with propokertools.

It is hard to move OP's hand vs a reasonable range far from the 30-33% range.  I think if you are in that range you are still making an ICM error by calling and you really shouldn't be taking such a marginal option in a $5 nlo8 tournament you should be able to crush by getting it in good vs people who call off with A223. 

[Doobs]

Should have added that if you are heads up with Tikay and he has never played the game before and thinks it is right to just shove the top 10%, you are still 45% vs his range.  Hence that makes the call correct with a fair few big blinds.