nlo8

[willrobrobu]

everyone is pretty tight and going with any aaxx, any a2xx and most a3xx hands. the odd donk is shoving anything pretty  regardless of whether they have a low, but most of those players have bust now

this is a call right? is it still a call vs seat 2 and seat 3 shoving?

PokerStars Hand #125382341494: Tournament #1043255687, $5.00+$0.50 USD Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit - Level VII (50/100) - 2014/11/19 12:00:53 WET [2014/11/19 7:00:53 ET]
Table '1043255687 3' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: FRED RUSSO (1441 in chips)
Seat 2: eFKa_13 (4088 in chips)
Seat 3: Acho88 (5025 in chips)
Seat 6: willrobrobu (8048 in chips)
Seat 7: gomer7777 (2500 in chips)
Seat 8: hunni a.d. (1725 in chips)
FRED RUSSO: posts the ante 10
eFKa_13: posts the ante 10
Acho88: posts the ante 10
willrobrobu: posts the ante 10
gomer7777: posts the ante 10
hunni a.d.: posts the ante 10
Acho88: posts small blind 50
willrobrobu: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to willrobrobu [ ]
gomer7777: folds
hunni a.d.: raises 1615 to 1715 and is all-in
FRED RUSSO: calls 1431 and is all-in
eFKa_13: folds
Acho88: folds
willrobrobu:

[Oxford_HRV]

i'd much rather call this in NLO, i'd still snappage this, but always folding vs seats 2 or 3 getting involved.

[tikay]

If anyone can convince me that 4-5-7-8 is a call for 17 Bigs in NLO8, I'll officially admit I'm past it. NLO, maybe, but NL08?

Have to confess, never played NLO8, but I just assumed it is wider ranges than PLO8? But THAT wide?

Yikes.

Click to see full-size image.

[MC]

I've been playing a few nlo8 turbo mtts recently and just educated guessing at wtf to do. I wouldn't even think about calling here.

[tikay]

I've been playing a few nlo8 turbo mtts recently and just educated guessing at wtf to do. I wouldn't even think about calling here.

Ahh, it never crossed my mind that this was a Turbo, guess that widens ranges even further.

Even so, I could never get comfy calling with a hand like that for 17 Bigs though.

Doobsy seems to do quite well at NLO8 Turbos, maybe he'll have a better idea.

[willrobrobu]

it's not a turbo. it's a painfully slow structure that makes me desperate to want to get all my chips in with any 4 cards

in this specific hand we aren't heads up, it's 3 way. i think heads up i probs wouldnt call more than 5-10bb depending on oppo.

3 way though, if they both have A2xx hands we will be a significant favourite much of the time, surely?

obviously if one of them has AAxx and the other a2xx our equity wont be nearly as good but i thought maybe the hand would still be good enough to hold its own vs most 3-way holdings. plus them both having a2xx is way more likely than one having aaxx and the other a2xx no?

this is just gut instinct/educated guesswork, i havent done any calculations (whats best software for nlo8 range/equity calcs?)

[Honeybadger]

This is definitely not a call.

[Doobs]

I've been playing a few nlo8 turbo mtts recently and just educated guessing at wtf to do. I wouldn't even think about calling here.

Ahh, it never crossed my mind that this was a Turbo, guess that widens ranges even further.

Even so, I could never get comfy calling with a hand like that for 17 Bigs though.

Doobsy seems to do quite well at NLO8 Turbos, maybe he'll have a better idea.

I'd definitely fold here, but think it is absolutely fine for calling/shoving heads up with something like 10BBs.  Double suits make a big difference.  Good hand for tilting those fresh from PLO8 too.

Will pop up the link to the best equity site later, sure Adam can help if he is around.

[tikay]

it's not a turbo. it's a painfully slow structure that makes me desperate to want to get all my chips in with any 4 cards

in this specific hand we aren't heads up, it's 3 way. i think heads up i probs wouldnt call more than 5-10bb depending on oppo.

3 way though, if they both have A2xx hands we will be a significant favourite much of the time, surely?

obviously if one of them has AAxx and the other a2xx our equity wont be nearly as good but i thought maybe the hand would still be good enough to hold its own vs most 3-way holdings. plus them both having a2xx is way more likely than one having aaxx and the other a2xx no?

this is just gut instinct/educated guesswork, i havent done any calculations (whats best software for nlo8 range/equity calcs?)

I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but.....


3 way though, if they both have A2xx hands we will be a significant favourite much of the time, surely?



Why would that make us "significant favourite"? They already have the nut low draw, they don't need to hit. (For the Low).

I suppose that, 3 way, we wont be far behind for the High, but we play to Scoop, not split, don't we? 

Maybe you are suggesting that 3 way against A-A-2 & A-2-x hands, we will often win the high in a 3 way pot & so make a (small) profit?

It's extremely unlikely in my mind that we can scoop 3 way with 4-5-7-8. Almost every card that hits us also hits the A-A-2 hand for the Low.

I just don't want to go to war with a hand that has such poor scoopio possibilities.

You are opening my eyes, though, I do need to widen my ranges a bit. Not quite THIS far yet, though.  

[willrobrobu]

This is definitely not a call.

surely its close at worst.
we MUST be about 40-45% here a bunch of the time THREE WAYS. when we get dominated surely we can't be far off 30%?

this isn't a weekly 530 it's a 5.50 where constantly through the whole game and regardless of stack sizes most of these guys are 'A2 = all-in'. you constantly see big aipfs a2xx vs a2xx. if anyhand is going to go three ways vs two shortstack A2xx'ers this has to be the one no?

[tikay]

I've been playing a few nlo8 turbo mtts recently and just educated guessing at wtf to do. I wouldn't even think about calling here.

Ahh, it never crossed my mind that this was a Turbo, guess that widens ranges even further.

Even so, I could never get comfy calling with a hand like that for 17 Bigs though.

Doobsy seems to do quite well at NLO8 Turbos, maybe he'll have a better idea.

I'd definitely fold here, but think it is absolutely fine for calling/shoving heads up with something like 10BBs.  Double suits make a big difference. 

Good hand for tilting those fresh from PLO8 too.

Will pop up the link to the best equity site later, sure Adam can help if he is around.

I can manage the shove part, just about!

It'd not tilt me, good Lord no, but I'd deffo raise an eyebrow & make a new note on the Villain......

[willrobrobu]

ok i believe that its a fold now, because i've been told so by lots of peeps... i'm just not sure why. it feels like we are getting it in sooo good!

[tikay]

ok i believe that its a fold now, because i've been told so by lots of peeps... i'm just not sure why. it feels like we are getting it in sooo good!

If it were PLO, yes, but it is just very wrong in O8, I'd say.

We are getting it in with one end crushed in O8. 

[Oxford_HRV]

our hand has great board coverage and usually a chunk of good turns when we miss, it plays well enough vs unconnected jamming hands. i'd expect the two jammers block each others outs often enough and be over playing lo hands enough of the time which is never a gtd share of the pot. we got loads of chips and we are last to act. its pretty tough to get it in drawing ultra thin. as willrobrobu says these guys are gii with most a2 and a3 hands and i'd imagine any big pair hand with lo danglers.

lets say we are up against the worst of it when we call and villains have

 
 

both flush draws are crushed and we have pair and straight outs blocked we still have 25% equity pre

when we are up against more favourable hands we have 35%

 
 

it's not a turbo. it's a painfully slow structure that makes me desperate to want to get all my chips in with any 4 cards

in this specific hand we aren't heads up, it's 3 way. i think heads up i probs wouldnt call more than 5-10bb depending on oppo.

3 way though, if they both have A2xx hands we will be a significant favourite much of the time, surely?

obviously if one of them has AAxx and the other a2xx our equity wont be nearly as good but i thought maybe the hand would still be good enough to hold its own vs most 3-way holdings. plus them both having a2xx is way more likely than one having aaxx and the other a2xx no?

this is just gut instinct/educated guesswork, i havent done any calculations (whats best software for nlo8 range/equity calcs?)

we will never be significant fav's vs two A2xx hands or even get over 40% but this hand will still be good enough nearly all of the time to hold its own 3 way.

[Doobs]

I've been playing a few nlo8 turbo mtts recently and just educated guessing at wtf to do. I wouldn't even think about calling here.

Ahh, it never crossed my mind that this was a Turbo, guess that widens ranges even further.

Even so, I could never get comfy calling with a hand like that for 17 Bigs though.

Doobsy seems to do quite well at NLO8 Turbos, maybe he'll have a better idea.

I'd definitely fold here, but think it is absolutely fine for calling/shoving heads up with something like 10BBs.  Double suits make a big difference. 

Good hand for tilting those fresh from PLO8 too.

Will pop up the link to the best equity site later, sure Adam can help if he is around.

I can manage the shove part, just about!

It'd not tilt me, good Lord no, but I'd deffo raise an eyebrow & make a new note on the Villain......

Heads up in NLO8 he should be shoving a large range off 10BBs, hence anything double suited with a low draw should be good enough for the low 40s% equity we need to call.