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Author Topic: Paris horror attack  (Read 33527 times)
TightEnd
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« Reply #345 on: November 20, 2015, 10:35:36 AM »

Logistically impossible maybe for every tube and train station, certainly hugely expensive, but i'd take minor inconveniences over regular successful attacks (not that there are regular successful attacks)

dont particularly see it as terrorists winning to have these safeguards in place, see it as stopping the terrorists winning
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« Reply #346 on: November 20, 2015, 10:36:39 AM »

 Click to see full-size image.


Just a normal day at Oxford Circus

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/commuters-face-scrum-at-oxford-circus-station-amid-fears-capitals-transport-network-is-at-breaking-10089779.html
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« Reply #347 on: November 20, 2015, 10:39:08 AM »

Logistically impossible maybe for every tube and train station, certainly hugely expensive, but i'd take minor inconveniences over regular successful attacks (not that there are regular successful attacks)

dont particularly see it as terrorists winning to have these safeguards in place, see it as stopping the terrorists winning

Without wanting to sound facile, as a parent did you try and prevent any possible thing in your home from being a potential danger to your kids or did you just accept there would always be some risks?

You'd buy a kid on a bike a helmet and maybe elbow and knee pads. You wouldn't make them wear full body armour and crash helmet.
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TightEnd
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« Reply #348 on: November 20, 2015, 10:42:12 AM »

Logistically impossible maybe for every tube and train station, certainly hugely expensive, but i'd take minor inconveniences over regular successful attacks (not that there are regular successful attacks)

dont particularly see it as terrorists winning to have these safeguards in place, see it as stopping the terrorists winning

Without wanting to sound facile, as a parent did you try and prevent any possible thing in your home from being a potential danger to your kids or did you just accept there would always be some risks?

You'd buy a kid on a bike a helmet and maybe elbow and knee pads. You wouldn't make them wear full body armour and crash helmet.

of course its all a balance between risk and civil liberties in policy making terms.

i don't think it will happen for the logistical reasons you outline but if it did i wouldn't be in high dudgeon about it
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The Camel
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« Reply #349 on: November 20, 2015, 10:43:16 AM »

Logistically impossible maybe for every tube and train station, certainly hugely expensive, but i'd take minor inconveniences over regular successful attacks (not that there are regular successful attacks)

dont particularly see it as terrorists winning to have these safeguards in place, see it as stopping the terrorists winning

Without wanting to sound facile, as a parent did you try and prevent any possible thing in your home from being a potential danger to your kids or did you just accept there would always be some risks?

You'd buy a kid on a bike a helmet and maybe elbow and knee pads. You wouldn't make them wear full body armour and crash helmet.

I remember having a similar disagreement with some posters after the April Jones murder.

Be aware and vigilant, but you can't wrap people with cotton wool all their lives, or eventually their life won't be worth living.
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« Reply #350 on: November 20, 2015, 10:49:49 AM »

About 200-300 million screenings to do it for air traffic.
About 3 billion screenings to do it for rail and tube.

Definitely not possible. But also I suspect not even helpful, we've already had an attack on the transport network. Theoretically another one is possible but to find people to carry it out, without the the intelligence services finding out and avoiding police and transport police before actually carrying it out - I would guess extremely thin probability.

Even if it were logistically possible there is no way it would be proportionate to the threat.
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« Reply #351 on: November 20, 2015, 10:52:27 AM »

Could someone answer a couple of questions for me:

1. Why exactly are ISIS targeting the West like this? This i actually don't get. Their priority was gaining power and control in Syria right? So why are they choosing now in particular to incur the wrath of the same parties who funded/trained them to fight against Assad?

2. What are the reasons that no country seems to be planning to go in on foot to ISIS strongholds in Syria and Iraq? 

Apparently Isis have established a new caliphate who's main task is to annihilate all Muslims who don't follow the Koran to the bloody and outdated letter, so that's most of them basically, with the priority being their fellow countrymen.
It is also their divine quest to provoke the 'Christian' West into a massive war which will destroy them down the last five thousand, who will partake in a glorious last battle where Jesus (yes, Jesus) will appear to lead them to victory in the apocalypse.

I don't know how accurate this is but is does kind of explain why the are fighting a war the have no chance of winning, they don't want to win, they just want to play there part in the last act.
It is also the first thing I have seen that explains why western Muslim families have left modern comfortable lives to go to Syria.
They must be truly convinced that the end of days are upon us and that to comply is their only choice.

It's pretty scary stuff for those of us who can't comprehend dying/sacrificing our families for faith.



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« Reply #352 on: November 20, 2015, 10:54:55 AM »

Just saw the Andrew Neill monologue.

He's probably just moved up several thousand spots on any IS hit list.

What's old Anjem Choudary got to say about this?

He's unusually quiet. Is keeping off Twitter one of his bail conditions?
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« Reply #353 on: November 20, 2015, 11:25:58 AM »

They're off again.
170 hostages in a hotel in Mali used by Air France crew.
:-(
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« Reply #354 on: November 20, 2015, 11:37:28 AM »

They're off again.
170 hostages in a hotel in Mali used by Air France crew.
:-(

africa's richest man is one of the hostages

Aliko Dangote – Net worth: $15.7 Billion (Nigerian)

"Aliko Dangote is the world’s richest black man. He built his fortune through three commodities: sugar, cement, flour. Also he plans to invest in oil."
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The Camel
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« Reply #355 on: November 20, 2015, 11:39:57 AM »

They're off again.
170 hostages in a hotel in Mali used by Air France crew.
:-(

africa's richest man is one of the hostages

Aliko Dangote – Net worth: $15.7 Billion (Nigerian)

"Aliko Dangote is the world’s richest black man. He built his fortune through three commodities: sugar, cement, flour. Also he plans to invest in oil."


Interesting.

Call me cynical, but I'll guess is there will be a peaceful conclusion to this particular crisis then.
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« Reply #356 on: November 20, 2015, 11:50:04 AM »

They're off again.
170 hostages in a hotel in Mali used by Air France crew.
:-(

africa's richest man is one of the hostages

Aliko Dangote – Net worth: $15.7 Billion (Nigerian)

"Aliko Dangote is the world’s richest black man. He built his fortune through three commodities: sugar, cement, flour. Also he plans to invest in oil."


Interesting.

Call me cynical, but I'll guess is there will be a peaceful conclusion to this particular crisis then.

Denied already. 
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« Reply #357 on: November 20, 2015, 12:15:11 PM »

Question of the day (As Mr Shoelace seems to have stopped doing this)

Would you be happy with (or indeed accept) airport type security before using a train?

I'm not happy with it before using an aeroplane.

why not John?

i can't imagine wanting to go on one if bags hadnt been checked, people and hand luggage hadn't gone through the machines

I don't mind bags being checked. It's all the stuff with shoes, belts, laptops, liquids, most of which has little merit in bomb prevention, but makes the public feel like they are being safeguarded. We don't have any of that on trains or buses, and I can't think of an attack other than 7/7.
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« Reply #358 on: November 21, 2015, 12:59:03 AM »

It was only a couple of months ago that someone posted about Tunisia attacks and would they go to Tunisia, but look at last Friday's events and would you have gone to certain events that have been and gone or that are upcoming?

England v France - on Tuesday night

If France was at home on the Tuesday

Would you go to the Euro's in 2016 in France?

All of Europe, mainly England and France are saying "We won't be beat", but yet they are beating us. We walk around in fear. Paris is covered in fear, so is London and the same in other major cities. They definitely aren't winning and so on, but they are able to do what they wanted to do and terrify Europe. Yet all we are hear is that they will take IS down, but it won't happen.

But also, I always thought that I would always very likely thought Labour, but Jeremy Corbyn and has "no shoot" policy is absolutely stupid.

These terrorists do make it hard for themselves though, did they really think they would get into the stadium? But how did they get into the nightclub in Paris? I don't think they would ever get into big named nightclubs in London.

You don't think two men with kalashnikovs could get past a London doorman?

I am sure they could - But they couldn't get into the football stadium in France.

You wrote you didn't think they would get into a big London nightclub.
I think they could get into any of our nightclubs/museums/restaurants with the method of running up to the front door firing automatic weapons.
 
I agree the the different tactic of trying to sneak in wearing a suicide vest like they did at the stadium has a much higher chance of being foiled, but I think they knew that too, hence the different options.

Basically there isn't anyway you can protect public places from people who want to kill and don't mind if they die trying, we can only hope the intelligence services can keep discovering their plots and try to carry on with our lives as best we can.

I think you could argue that a standard doorman is not going to do anything if there is a terrorist, but surely for a terrorist to get a "good result" in terms of good numbers, then I would question how they could get all weapons into a nightclub, etc. They could of course shoot a door supervisor/bouncer, but that would have only happened after a doorman has realised they have "weapons"?

I don't know the biggest nightclub in London, but I would potentially guess at Heaven, at Charing Cross. The sercurity is tight there, would they get a "good result" in their eyes? I suspect the sercurity in nightclubs like this and similar, would have an impact on how many they kill.

They must have known they would struggle with the football match too.

I hate to say it, but if you are wanting to kill as many people as possible, potentially hundreds, then why make it so tough? You aren't going to get checked on the tube at rush hour, when there are hundreds, you have hundreds in Trafalgar Square and in some theatres in the west end, they don't check your bag thoroughly enough. So I find it amazing, how they go to a football stadium, etc.
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« Reply #359 on: November 22, 2015, 10:34:08 PM »

I really just don't get it.

I think of Iraq and how it took 2 weeks or so to take over an entire country. How is it that there aren't really any concerted efforts to get rid of ISIS? There is evidently a Western interest in keeping them an active presence, but what is it?

For the shit they do, ISIS seem to retain quite a few powerful friends.
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