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Author Topic: Paris horror attack  (Read 33573 times)
Doobs
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« Reply #300 on: November 16, 2015, 10:17:21 PM »


Being devils advocate now but why sigh Tom? If it is proved that IS members are being allowed in to a country as refugees surely the right thing to do is stop it until a robust method of vetting is in place.

Isn't that playing into the hands of IS? Stopping people from escaping the horrors.

I thought they were more concerned about causing harm to the West.

My understanding is that IS wish to establish a Caliphate which is a region governed by Shariah law. That's what they are doing in Syria and Iraq. Al Qaeda's MO included destroying the west.  That's one of the main differences between the organisations.

The attacks in Paris were retaliation for air strikes on their caliphate.  Not as a result of their hatred for the west.

Happy to have that corrected by someone more knowledgeable.

"Exempted from automatic execution, it appears, are Christians who do not resist their new government. Baghdadi permits them to live, as long as they pay a special tax, known as the jizya, and acknowledge their subjugation. The Koranic authority for this practice is not in dispute."
(http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/)


Accepting any man made law above the law of the Koran is worthy of a death sentence so I think your wrong, although the quote above does exempt some people.

I can see that artcile in the atlantic seems popular here, but IS are very much picking the bits of the koran that suit their purposes.  And saying IS are very Islamic feels a bit like saying that a murderer who always obeys the speed limit is very law abiding.

Though the koran has more than its fair share of war mongering statements, but every chapter of the koran begins with a statement saying Allah is merciful, and there are numerous references to forgiveness.

I think they are very much driven by taking territory in the Middle East and that is far more important than attacking the West.  The muslim/middle eastern body count is far higher than the Westerner body count.

I don't even think the article is that accurate on Christians either, as there are documented examples of mass killings of christians too.
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AlunB
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« Reply #301 on: November 17, 2015, 12:12:11 AM »


Being devils advocate now but why sigh Tom? If it is proved that IS members are being allowed in to a country as refugees surely the right thing to do is stop it until a robust method of vetting is in place.

Isn't that playing into the hands of IS? Stopping people from escaping the horrors.

I thought they were more concerned about causing harm to the West.

My understanding is that IS wish to establish a Caliphate which is a region governed by Shariah law. That's what they are doing in Syria and Iraq. Al Qaeda's MO included destroying the west.  That's one of the main differences between the organisations.

The attacks in Paris were retaliation for air strikes on their caliphate.  Not as a result of their hatred for the west.

Happy to have that corrected by someone more knowledgeable.

"Exempted from automatic execution, it appears, are Christians who do not resist their new government. Baghdadi permits them to live, as long as they pay a special tax, known as the jizya, and acknowledge their subjugation. The Koranic authority for this practice is not in dispute."
(http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/)


Accepting any man made law above the law of the Koran is worthy of a death sentence so I think your wrong, although the quote above does exempt some people.

I can see that artcile in the atlantic seems popular here, but IS are very much picking the bits of the koran that suit their purposes.  And saying IS are very Islamic feels a bit like saying that a murderer who always obeys the speed limit is very law abiding.

Though the koran has more than its fair share of war mongering statements, but every chapter of the koran begins with a statement saying Allah is merciful, and there are numerous references to forgiveness.

I think they are very much driven by taking territory in the Middle East and that is far more important than attacking the West.  The muslim/middle eastern body count is far higher than the Westerner body count.

I don't even think the article is that accurate on Christians either, as there are documented examples of mass killings of christians too.

Something can be Islamic as an adjective but not as a noun. Something can define itself by Islam and in its nature be very Islamic without defining what Islam is for everyone else.
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Doobs
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« Reply #302 on: November 17, 2015, 01:22:15 AM »


Being devils advocate now but why sigh Tom? If it is proved that IS members are being allowed in to a country as refugees surely the right thing to do is stop it until a robust method of vetting is in place.

Isn't that playing into the hands of IS? Stopping people from escaping the horrors.

I thought they were more concerned about causing harm to the West.

My understanding is that IS wish to establish a Caliphate which is a region governed by Shariah law. That's what they are doing in Syria and Iraq. Al Qaeda's MO included destroying the west.  That's one of the main differences between the organisations.

The attacks in Paris were retaliation for air strikes on their caliphate.  Not as a result of their hatred for the west.

Happy to have that corrected by someone more knowledgeable.

"Exempted from automatic execution, it appears, are Christians who do not resist their new government. Baghdadi permits them to live, as long as they pay a special tax, known as the jizya, and acknowledge their subjugation. The Koranic authority for this practice is not in dispute."
(http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/)


Accepting any man made law above the law of the Koran is worthy of a death sentence so I think your wrong, although the quote above does exempt some people.

I can see that artcile in the atlantic seems popular here, but IS are very much picking the bits of the koran that suit their purposes.  And saying IS are very Islamic feels a bit like saying that a murderer who always obeys the speed limit is very law abiding.

Though the koran has more than its fair share of war mongering statements, but every chapter of the koran begins with a statement saying Allah is merciful, and there are numerous references to forgiveness.

I think they are very much driven by taking territory in the Middle East and that is far more important than attacking the West.  The muslim/middle eastern body count is far higher than the Westerner body count.

I don't even think the article is that accurate on Christians either, as there are documented examples of mass killings of christians too.

Something can be Islamic as an adjective but not as a noun. Something can define itself by Islam and in its nature be very Islamic without defining what Islam is for everyone else.

I quite like this idea, pity it didn't catch on.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/isis-call-it-the-un-islamic-state-say-muslim-groups-as-another-hostage-is-murdered-9731823.html
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« Reply #303 on: November 17, 2015, 08:26:32 PM »

Dutch Football ‏@football_oranje  10m10 minutes ago
Reports emerging now that German Police discovered a vehicle disguised as an ambulance filled with explosives near the stadium.


Firstly very well done for discovering that seems like the last place you would think to look.

Secondly what a mess this is.
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« Reply #304 on: November 17, 2015, 08:28:38 PM »

Never been so nervous watching an England match and I couldn't care less about the result.

Absolutely terrifying stuff in Germany.
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« Reply #305 on: November 17, 2015, 08:30:36 PM »

Never been so nervous watching an England match and I couldn't care less about the result.

Absolutely terrifying stuff in Germany.

Agreed

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« Reply #306 on: November 17, 2015, 09:22:52 PM »

Hannover Chief of Police: "There was a device intended to be detonated inside the stadium."
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« Reply #307 on: November 17, 2015, 09:54:03 PM »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12002026/Hannover-bomb-plot-Germany-v-Netherlands-called-off-what-we-know-so-far.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1447792513

Football stadium, concert hall, train station.

Tonight could have been very different.
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« Reply #308 on: November 17, 2015, 10:16:04 PM »

Reports now saying no explosives found in Hannover, so maybe a false alarm this time?
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« Reply #309 on: November 18, 2015, 11:07:41 AM »

i thought this was beautiful

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tikay
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« Reply #310 on: November 18, 2015, 11:09:03 AM »



Oh my word.
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TightEnd
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« Reply #311 on: November 18, 2015, 11:12:25 AM »

police shield from a French officer sent into the Bataclan to restore order

 Click to see full-size image.
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« Reply #312 on: November 18, 2015, 11:13:35 AM »

My son and I went to the game last night. Listening to fans singing le marseillais on the tube on the way there will stay with me for a very long time.
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TightEnd
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« Reply #313 on: November 18, 2015, 11:13:44 AM »

Terror mastermind cornered in Paris flat by 100 armed police.

Wife blows herself up, another jihadi shot dead and 5 more arrested. Developing
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« Reply #314 on: November 18, 2015, 11:47:40 AM »

police shield from a French officer sent into the Bataclan to restore order

 Click to see full-size image.


Did he get to deliver Jeremy Corbyn's letter?
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