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The most admired person in Great Britain is........
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Topic: The most admired person in Great Britain is........ (Read 17195 times)
Whollyflush
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 686
Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
«
Reply #75 on:
February 01, 2015, 11:15:51 PM »
Quote from: Honeybadger on January 31, 2015, 06:29:45 PM
I don't have any strong views on the queen as a person since I have never met her and don't know too much about her. She does seem rather cold and staid to me. But maybe in private she is a warm, loving mum and a fantastic conversationalist. I kinda doubt it, but whatever.
However, I do have strong views on the
institution
of monarchy. I think it is a load of old bollocks and should be got rid of immediately. It is an anachronistic throwback to the days when certain groups of people were considered better and more deserving than others purely due to their birth. It symbolises entrenched privilege, entitlement and social stasis, and thus has no place in a modern, forward thinking and egalitarian society
If I was to meet the queen I would be expected to bow. Bow! Really? Think about that for a moment, and realise what a load of bullshit that is. It suggests that she is my better, that I should show her more respect than if I was to meet a 'normal' person. She is not my better. And she is not your better either. I ain't bowing to no-one.
spot on.
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arbboy
Hero Member
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Posts: 13270
Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
«
Reply #76 on:
February 01, 2015, 11:20:20 PM »
Quote from: kinboshi on February 01, 2015, 12:41:16 PM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 11:48:13 AM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 01, 2015, 11:29:13 AM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 10:21:58 AM
Quote from: mulhuzz on January 31, 2015, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: The Camel on January 31, 2015, 07:31:24 PM
Quote from: mulhuzz on January 31, 2015, 06:40:26 PM
Quote from: The Camel on January 31, 2015, 02:52:55 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on January 31, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
I admire the Queen, and to some extent all of the Royal Family, greatly
To admit so on here (which must be a very unusal place for a collection of British people in being quite anti-royal. Perhaps supporters just keep their traps shut) sometimes seems to open you up to ridicule and occasionally abuse though
Apart from being born and living until she's old, what has she done to warrant admiration?
You can admire and support the idea of the monarchy,
but to admire that woman when she is only in her position by accident of birth is perverse
.
do you admire David Beckham? Mo Farah? Anybody ever?
Yes, I admire both of those two guys.
They are talented, extremely hard working and excellent role models for children. I'd struggle to find two guys in England I admire more.
Why?
they are both elite athletes by the perverse reason of their genetics.
Beckham is certainly not an elite 'athlete' by his genetics. That's just a stupid thing to say. His natural talent/natural athletic ability is tiny in comparison to most footballers. He is a classic example (alongside Gary Neville/Paula Radcliffe amongst other elite level UK sports people) of getting to the top through hard work and graft and nothing else. In Beckham's case his carefully crafted image off the field has had a lot more to do with it on top of the hard work put in.
I'm one of Paula Radcliffe's biggest fans, and the work and commitment she has put in its incredible. But to say she has no natural talent is inaccurate. She was an outstanding runner before she was a teenager. She's a gifted athlete. I agree that she's made the most of her talent and she's also had to overcome obstacles, including exercise-induced asthma.
She's definitely made the most of the good hand she was dealt.
I was at lboro uni the same years as she was and her dedication to training was incredible. She somehow managed to get a first as well in her degree. She clearly has a level of natural talent but nowhere near enough to get to where she has without literally 100% maxing every ounce of that talent. There must have been hundreds of runners as talented as her/more talented as a teenager but the work ethic gets them to the very top. I find it amazing how elite athletes find the motivation to stay so far ahead of the game for 20 odd years day in day out.
She's probably the greatest British athlete of all time, and without doubt she's earned that through her hard work.
Not sure greatest British athlete of all time. Think that is taking it a little too far. I would def agree the greatest British long distance athlete.
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The Baron
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 9558
Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
«
Reply #77 on:
February 02, 2015, 12:48:10 AM »
Quote from: TightEnd on January 31, 2015, 03:06:20 PM
Quote from: RED-DOG on January 31, 2015, 02:55:01 PM
Quote from: The Camel on January 31, 2015, 02:52:55 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on January 31, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
I admire the Queen, and to some extent all of the Royal Family, greatly
To admit so on here (which must be a very unusal place for a collection of British people in being quite anti-royal. Perhaps supporters just keep their traps shut) sometimes seems to open you up to ridicule and occasionally abuse though
Apart from being born and living until she's old, what has she done to warrant admiration?
You can admire and support the idea of the monarchy, but to admire that woman when she is only in her position by accident of birth is perverse.
I suppose for me, a lot of it is about what she hasn't done.
I think to some people its an anachronism that a system that of inherited privilege and power should have retained its popularity.
consistently polls have shown support for a republic to be running less than 20% across the UK
perhaps respect is a better word than admire in this case
whilst of course the hereditary aspect of it is difficult to defend per se I think she's a terrific ambassador for the UK, has fulfilled her duty for over 60 years home and abroad through enormous social, demographic and economic change and through it all gives Britain a long-held standing in the world.
During the jubilee two years ago, a massive success, towns went nuts for the Queen. Thousands lined the streets, hung out of windows, climbed lamp-posts to catch a glimpse of their monarch.
if you were looking at the comments section of a national newspapaer of the bbc when these issues come up you'd be in receipt of heavy flak for espousing republican type sentiments. Here the reverse can be true, very interesting
Middle England towns and villages in monarchy supporting shocker.
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kinboshi
ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
Administrator
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Offline
Posts: 44239
We go again.
Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
«
Reply #78 on:
February 02, 2015, 07:11:24 AM »
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 01, 2015, 12:41:16 PM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 11:48:13 AM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 01, 2015, 11:29:13 AM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 10:21:58 AM
Quote from: mulhuzz on January 31, 2015, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: The Camel on January 31, 2015, 07:31:24 PM
Quote from: mulhuzz on January 31, 2015, 06:40:26 PM
Quote from: The Camel on January 31, 2015, 02:52:55 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on January 31, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
I admire the Queen, and to some extent all of the Royal Family, greatly
To admit so on here (which must be a very unusal place for a collection of British people in being quite anti-royal. Perhaps supporters just keep their traps shut) sometimes seems to open you up to ridicule and occasionally abuse though
Apart from being born and living until she's old, what has she done to warrant admiration?
You can admire and support the idea of the monarchy,
but to admire that woman when she is only in her position by accident of birth is perverse
.
do you admire David Beckham? Mo Farah? Anybody ever?
Yes, I admire both of those two guys.
They are talented, extremely hard working and excellent role models for children. I'd struggle to find two guys in England I admire more.
Why?
they are both elite athletes by the perverse reason of their genetics.
Beckham is certainly not an elite 'athlete' by his genetics. That's just a stupid thing to say. His natural talent/natural athletic ability is tiny in comparison to most footballers. He is a classic example (alongside Gary Neville/Paula Radcliffe amongst other elite level UK sports people) of getting to the top through hard work and graft and nothing else. In Beckham's case his carefully crafted image off the field has had a lot more to do with it on top of the hard work put in.
I'm one of Paula Radcliffe's biggest fans, and the work and commitment she has put in its incredible. But to say she has no natural talent is inaccurate. She was an outstanding runner before she was a teenager. She's a gifted athlete. I agree that she's made the most of her talent and she's also had to overcome obstacles, including exercise-induced asthma.
She's definitely made the most of the good hand she was dealt.
I was at lboro uni the same years as she was and her dedication to training was incredible. She somehow managed to get a first as well in her degree. She clearly has a level of natural talent but nowhere near enough to get to where she has without literally 100% maxing every ounce of that talent. There must have been hundreds of runners as talented as her/more talented as a teenager but the work ethic gets them to the very top. I find it amazing how elite athletes find the motivation to stay so far ahead of the game for 20 odd years day in day out.
She's probably the greatest British athlete of all time, and without doubt she's earned that through her hard work.
Not sure greatest British athlete of all time. Think that is taking it a little too far. I would def agree the greatest British long distance athlete.
Definitely long-distance, struggling to think of other candidates who are challenging for best British athlete of all time. Who would you suggest?
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david3103
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 6089
Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
«
Reply #79 on:
February 02, 2015, 08:24:36 AM »
Quote from: kinboshi on February 02, 2015, 07:11:24 AM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 01, 2015, 12:41:16 PM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 11:48:13 AM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 01, 2015, 11:29:13 AM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 10:21:58 AM
Quote from: mulhuzz on January 31, 2015, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: The Camel on January 31, 2015, 07:31:24 PM
Quote from: mulhuzz on January 31, 2015, 06:40:26 PM
Quote from: The Camel on January 31, 2015, 02:52:55 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on January 31, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
I admire the Queen, and to some extent all of the Royal Family, greatly
To admit so on here (which must be a very unusal place for a collection of British people in being quite anti-royal. Perhaps supporters just keep their traps shut) sometimes seems to open you up to ridicule and occasionally abuse though
Apart from being born and living until she's old, what has she done to warrant admiration?
You can admire and support the idea of the monarchy,
but to admire that woman when she is only in her position by accident of birth is perverse
.
do you admire David Beckham? Mo Farah? Anybody ever?
Yes, I admire both of those two guys.
They are talented, extremely hard working and excellent role models for children. I'd struggle to find two guys in England I admire more.
Why?
they are both elite athletes by the perverse reason of their genetics.
Beckham is certainly not an elite 'athlete' by his genetics. That's just a stupid thing to say. His natural talent/natural athletic ability is tiny in comparison to most footballers. He is a classic example (alongside Gary Neville/Paula Radcliffe amongst other elite level UK sports people) of getting to the top through hard work and graft and nothing else. In Beckham's case his carefully crafted image off the field has had a lot more to do with it on top of the hard work put in.
I'm one of Paula Radcliffe's biggest fans, and the work and commitment she has put in its incredible. But to say she has no natural talent is inaccurate. She was an outstanding runner before she was a teenager. She's a gifted athlete. I agree that she's made the most of her talent and she's also had to overcome obstacles, including exercise-induced asthma.
She's definitely made the most of the good hand she was dealt.
I was at lboro uni the same years as she was and her dedication to training was incredible. She somehow managed to get a first as well in her degree. She clearly has a level of natural talent but nowhere near enough to get to where she has without literally 100% maxing every ounce of that talent. There must have been hundreds of runners as talented as her/more talented as a teenager but the work ethic gets them to the very top. I find it amazing how elite athletes find the motivation to stay so far ahead of the game for 20 odd years day in day out.
She's probably the greatest British athlete of all time, and without doubt she's earned that through her hard work.
Not sure greatest British athlete of all time. Think that is taking it a little too far. I would def agree the greatest British long distance athlete.
Definitely long-distance, struggling to think of other candidates who are challenging for best British athlete of all time. Who would you suggest?
Lots of people who achieved great things without the financial support of 'elite athlete' money's
Eric Liddell
Harold Abrahams
Roger Bannister
David Bedford
Mary Peters
David Hemery
Daley Thompson
Brendan Foster
Steve Ovett
at least three of those have better claims than Paula Radcliffe
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tikay
Administrator
Hero Member
Online
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Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
«
Reply #80 on:
February 02, 2015, 08:34:12 AM »
Quote from: david3103 on February 02, 2015, 08:24:36 AM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 02, 2015, 07:11:24 AM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 01, 2015, 12:41:16 PM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 11:48:13 AM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 01, 2015, 11:29:13 AM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 10:21:58 AM
Quote from: mulhuzz on January 31, 2015, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: The Camel on January 31, 2015, 07:31:24 PM
Quote from: mulhuzz on January 31, 2015, 06:40:26 PM
Quote from: The Camel on January 31, 2015, 02:52:55 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on January 31, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
I admire the Queen, and to some extent all of the Royal Family, greatly
To admit so on here (which must be a very unusal place for a collection of British people in being quite anti-royal. Perhaps supporters just keep their traps shut) sometimes seems to open you up to ridicule and occasionally abuse though
Apart from being born and living until she's old, what has she done to warrant admiration?
You can admire and support the idea of the monarchy,
but to admire that woman when she is only in her position by accident of birth is perverse
.
do you admire David Beckham? Mo Farah? Anybody ever?
Yes, I admire both of those two guys.
They are talented, extremely hard working and excellent role models for children. I'd struggle to find two guys in England I admire more.
Why?
they are both elite athletes by the perverse reason of their genetics.
Beckham is certainly not an elite 'athlete' by his genetics. That's just a stupid thing to say. His natural talent/natural athletic ability is tiny in comparison to most footballers. He is a classic example (alongside Gary Neville/Paula Radcliffe amongst other elite level UK sports people) of getting to the top through hard work and graft and nothing else. In Beckham's case his carefully crafted image off the field has had a lot more to do with it on top of the hard work put in.
I'm one of Paula Radcliffe's biggest fans, and the work and commitment she has put in its incredible. But to say she has no natural talent is inaccurate. She was an outstanding runner before she was a teenager. She's a gifted athlete. I agree that she's made the most of her talent and she's also had to overcome obstacles, including exercise-induced asthma.
She's definitely made the most of the good hand she was dealt.
I was at lboro uni the same years as she was and her dedication to training was incredible. She somehow managed to get a first as well in her degree. She clearly has a level of natural talent but nowhere near enough to get to where she has without literally 100% maxing every ounce of that talent. There must have been hundreds of runners as talented as her/more talented as a teenager but the work ethic gets them to the very top. I find it amazing how elite athletes find the motivation to stay so far ahead of the game for 20 odd years day in day out.
She's probably the greatest British athlete of all time, and without doubt she's earned that through her hard work.
Not sure greatest British athlete of all time. Think that is taking it a little too far. I would def agree the greatest British long distance athlete.
Definitely long-distance, struggling to think of other candidates who are challenging for best British athlete of all time. Who would you suggest?
Lots of people who achieved great things without the financial support of 'elite athlete' money's
Eric Liddell
Harold Abrahams
Roger Bannister
David Bedford
Mary Peters
David Hemery
Daley Thompson
Brendan Foster
Steve Ovett
at least three of those have better claims than Paula Radcliffe
You could easily consider Mary Rand, Jonathan Edwards & Seb Coe, too.
It's hard - impossible really - to compare different sports & different eras, but to suggest Paula is the best ever is recency bias.
Coe's world record 800 metres stood for nearly 20 years. Edwards WR was set 18 years ago & has yet to be beaten. Rand won Olympic Medals at three different disciplines.
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arbboy
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 13270
Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
«
Reply #81 on:
February 02, 2015, 10:12:34 AM »
Quote from: tikay on February 02, 2015, 08:34:12 AM
Quote from: david3103 on February 02, 2015, 08:24:36 AM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 02, 2015, 07:11:24 AM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 01, 2015, 12:41:16 PM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 11:48:13 AM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 01, 2015, 11:29:13 AM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 10:21:58 AM
Quote from: mulhuzz on January 31, 2015, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: The Camel on January 31, 2015, 07:31:24 PM
Quote from: mulhuzz on January 31, 2015, 06:40:26 PM
Quote from: The Camel on January 31, 2015, 02:52:55 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on January 31, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
I admire the Queen, and to some extent all of the Royal Family, greatly
To admit so on here (which must be a very unusal place for a collection of British people in being quite anti-royal. Perhaps supporters just keep their traps shut) sometimes seems to open you up to ridicule and occasionally abuse though
Apart from being born and living until she's old, what has she done to warrant admiration?
You can admire and support the idea of the monarchy,
but to admire that woman when she is only in her position by accident of birth is perverse
.
do you admire David Beckham? Mo Farah? Anybody ever?
Yes, I admire both of those two guys.
They are talented, extremely hard working and excellent role models for children. I'd struggle to find two guys in England I admire more.
Why?
they are both elite athletes by the perverse reason of their genetics.
Beckham is certainly not an elite 'athlete' by his genetics. That's just a stupid thing to say. His natural talent/natural athletic ability is tiny in comparison to most footballers. He is a classic example (alongside Gary Neville/Paula Radcliffe amongst other elite level UK sports people) of getting to the top through hard work and graft and nothing else. In Beckham's case his carefully crafted image off the field has had a lot more to do with it on top of the hard work put in.
I'm one of Paula Radcliffe's biggest fans, and the work and commitment she has put in its incredible. But to say she has no natural talent is inaccurate. She was an outstanding runner before she was a teenager. She's a gifted athlete. I agree that she's made the most of her talent and she's also had to overcome obstacles, including exercise-induced asthma.
She's definitely made the most of the good hand she was dealt.
I was at lboro uni the same years as she was and her dedication to training was incredible. She somehow managed to get a first as well in her degree. She clearly has a level of natural talent but nowhere near enough to get to where she has without literally 100% maxing every ounce of that talent. There must have been hundreds of runners as talented as her/more talented as a teenager but the work ethic gets them to the very top. I find it amazing how elite athletes find the motivation to stay so far ahead of the game for 20 odd years day in day out.
She's probably the greatest British athlete of all time, and without doubt she's earned that through her hard work.
Not sure greatest British athlete of all time. Think that is taking it a little too far. I would def agree the greatest British long distance athlete.
Definitely long-distance, struggling to think of other candidates who are challenging for best British athlete of all time. Who would you suggest?
Lots of people who achieved great things without the financial support of 'elite athlete' money's
Eric Liddell
Harold Abrahams
Roger Bannister
David Bedford
Mary Peters
David Hemery
Daley Thompson
Brendan Foster
Steve Ovett
at least three of those have better claims than Paula Radcliffe
You could easily consider Mary Rand, Jonathan Edwards & Seb Coe, too.
It's hard - impossible really - to compare different sports & different eras, but to suggest Paula is the best ever is recency bias.
Coe's world record 800 metres stood for nearly 20 years. Edwards WR was set 18 years ago & has yet to be beaten. Rand won Olympic Medals at three different disciplines.
Have to agree with this. Coe is right up there for me in the all time UK greats. No one got close to Edwards' WR and you know he is 1000/1 to have been a drug cheat because of his religious beliefs so that record is 100% clean. Until i had a look at her record i had no idea she has never won an Olympic medal of any colour. It's impossible to rank her near the all time UK greats even though she is the WR holder for the marathon.
I would go as far to say that Coe and Steve Backley put Paula only 3rd all time on the greatest ever Loughborugh University athletes thinking about it more. Backley won 4 European Championships in a row in 12 years when winning the Euros was effectively the same as winning the Worlds/Olympics in his event in that era. He also had 2 Olympic silvers and a bronze in the same period as well as being the WR holder in the toughest era ever for Javelin throwing. If Backley (2nd greatest of all time hadn't run into the greatest of all time Jan Zelezny in the same era) then you would be talking about a UK athlete who literally dominated his event for 12 years straight and won virtually every gold medal available in that period. I don't think Backley gets anywhere near the credit he deserves because his event was a field event.
Daley Thompson and Linford Christie would also definitetly be ahead of Paula imo and they are just athletes from my lifetime. I haven't considered anyone pre 1984. Steve Ovett, Colin Jackson, Mo Farah and Sally Gunnell would also be up for debate but probably on a par with Paula.
«
Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 10:43:12 AM by arbboy
»
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kinboshi
ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
Administrator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 44239
We go again.
Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
«
Reply #82 on:
February 02, 2015, 11:18:36 AM »
Quote from: arbboy on February 02, 2015, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: tikay on February 02, 2015, 08:34:12 AM
Quote from: david3103 on February 02, 2015, 08:24:36 AM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 02, 2015, 07:11:24 AM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 01, 2015, 12:41:16 PM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 11:48:13 AM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 01, 2015, 11:29:13 AM
Quote from: arbboy on February 01, 2015, 10:21:58 AM
Quote from: mulhuzz on January 31, 2015, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: The Camel on January 31, 2015, 07:31:24 PM
Quote from: mulhuzz on January 31, 2015, 06:40:26 PM
Quote from: The Camel on January 31, 2015, 02:52:55 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on January 31, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
I admire the Queen, and to some extent all of the Royal Family, greatly
To admit so on here (which must be a very unusal place for a collection of British people in being quite anti-royal. Perhaps supporters just keep their traps shut) sometimes seems to open you up to ridicule and occasionally abuse though
Apart from being born and living until she's old, what has she done to warrant admiration?
You can admire and support the idea of the monarchy,
but to admire that woman when she is only in her position by accident of birth is perverse
.
do you admire David Beckham? Mo Farah? Anybody ever?
Yes, I admire both of those two guys.
They are talented, extremely hard working and excellent role models for children. I'd struggle to find two guys in England I admire more.
Why?
they are both elite athletes by the perverse reason of their genetics.
Beckham is certainly not an elite 'athlete' by his genetics. That's just a stupid thing to say. His natural talent/natural athletic ability is tiny in comparison to most footballers. He is a classic example (alongside Gary Neville/Paula Radcliffe amongst other elite level UK sports people) of getting to the top through hard work and graft and nothing else. In Beckham's case his carefully crafted image off the field has had a lot more to do with it on top of the hard work put in.
I'm one of Paula Radcliffe's biggest fans, and the work and commitment she has put in its incredible. But to say she has no natural talent is inaccurate. She was an outstanding runner before she was a teenager. She's a gifted athlete. I agree that she's made the most of her talent and she's also had to overcome obstacles, including exercise-induced asthma.
She's definitely made the most of the good hand she was dealt.
I was at lboro uni the same years as she was and her dedication to training was incredible. She somehow managed to get a first as well in her degree. She clearly has a level of natural talent but nowhere near enough to get to where she has without literally 100% maxing every ounce of that talent. There must have been hundreds of runners as talented as her/more talented as a teenager but the work ethic gets them to the very top. I find it amazing how elite athletes find the motivation to stay so far ahead of the game for 20 odd years day in day out.
She's probably the greatest British athlete of all time, and without doubt she's earned that through her hard work.
Not sure greatest British athlete of all time. Think that is taking it a little too far. I would def agree the greatest British long distance athlete.
Definitely long-distance, struggling to think of other candidates who are challenging for best British athlete of all time. Who would you suggest?
Lots of people who achieved great things without the financial support of 'elite athlete' money's
Eric Liddell
Harold Abrahams
Roger Bannister
David Bedford
Mary Peters
David Hemery
Daley Thompson
Brendan Foster
Steve Ovett
at least three of those have better claims than Paula Radcliffe
You could easily consider Mary Rand, Jonathan Edwards & Seb Coe, too.
It's hard - impossible really - to compare different sports & different eras, but to suggest Paula is the best ever is recency bias.
Coe's world record 800 metres stood for nearly 20 years. Edwards WR was set 18 years ago & has yet to be beaten. Rand won Olympic Medals at three different disciplines.
Have to agree with this. Coe is right up there for me in the all time UK greats. No one got close to Edwards' WR and you know he is 1000/1 to have been a drug cheat because of his religious beliefs so that record is 100% clean. Until i had a look at her record i had no idea she has never won an Olympic medal of any colour. It's impossible to rank her near the all time UK greats even though she is the WR holder for the marathon.
I would go as far to say that Coe and Steve Backley put Paula only 3rd all time on the greatest ever Loughborugh University athletes thinking about it more. Backley won 4 European Championships in a row in 12 years when winning the Euros was effectively the same as winning the Worlds/Olympics in his event in that era. He also had 2 Olympic silvers and a bronze in the same period as well as being the WR holder in the toughest era ever for Javelin throwing. If Backley (2nd greatest of all time hadn't run into the greatest of all time Jan Zelezny in the same era) then you would be talking about a UK athlete who literally dominated his event for 12 years straight and won virtually every gold medal available in that period. I don't think Backley gets anywhere near the credit he deserves because his event was a field event.
Daley Thompson and Linford Christie would also definitetly be ahead of Paula imo and they are just athletes from my lifetime. I haven't considered anyone pre 1984. Steve Ovett, Colin Jackson, Mo Farah and Sally Gunnell would also be up for debate but probably on a par with Paula.
At one point Paula Radcliffe had the world record or world best time (where there wasn't an officially sanctioned world record) for every distance on the road from 8K up to the marathon (and still holds most of them now). A phenomenal record. Also, her marathon record isn't close to being beaten currently. I think it's the opposite of 'recency bias' that means she isn't considered to the greatest British athlete by many. That and her record in the Olympics, especially on the track.
Some of the names you mentioned are in her bracket, but others fall way short. Linford Christie didn't dominate the sprints in the same way Paula has dominated the long-distance road races. Christie's doping incidences also cross him off being a 'great' in my book. Backley was very good, but as you've pointed out, wasn't the best in his field (pun intended) when he was competing - never mind all-time.
Edwards was outstanding in the triple jump, and his world record is an exceptional one as well. Thankfully, he's also seen sense in terms of religion as well - seeing the light (or the dark), so to speak. There's an argument for putting him up near the very top. Coe and Thompson need to be thrown into the argument as well.
It's a good debate though.
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DaveShoelace
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Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
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Reply #83 on:
February 02, 2015, 11:32:05 AM »
Quote from: kinboshi on February 02, 2015, 11:18:36 AM
Quote from: arbboy on February 02, 2015, 10:12:34 AM
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Quote from: TightEnd on January 31, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
I admire the Queen, and to some extent all of the Royal Family, greatly
To admit so on here (which must be a very unusal place for a collection of British people in being quite anti-royal. Perhaps supporters just keep their traps shut) sometimes seems to open you up to ridicule and occasionally abuse though
Apart from being born and living until she's old, what has she done to warrant admiration?
You can admire and support the idea of the monarchy,
but to admire that woman when she is only in her position by accident of birth is perverse
.
do you admire David Beckham? Mo Farah? Anybody ever?
Yes, I admire both of those two guys.
They are talented, extremely hard working and excellent role models for children. I'd struggle to find two guys in England I admire more.
Why?
they are both elite athletes by the perverse reason of their genetics.
Beckham is certainly not an elite 'athlete' by his genetics. That's just a stupid thing to say. His natural talent/natural athletic ability is tiny in comparison to most footballers. He is a classic example (alongside Gary Neville/Paula Radcliffe amongst other elite level UK sports people) of getting to the top through hard work and graft and nothing else. In Beckham's case his carefully crafted image off the field has had a lot more to do with it on top of the hard work put in.
I'm one of Paula Radcliffe's biggest fans, and the work and commitment she has put in its incredible. But to say she has no natural talent is inaccurate. She was an outstanding runner before she was a teenager. She's a gifted athlete. I agree that she's made the most of her talent and she's also had to overcome obstacles, including exercise-induced asthma.
She's definitely made the most of the good hand she was dealt.
I was at lboro uni the same years as she was and her dedication to training was incredible. She somehow managed to get a first as well in her degree. She clearly has a level of natural talent but nowhere near enough to get to where she has without literally 100% maxing every ounce of that talent. There must have been hundreds of runners as talented as her/more talented as a teenager but the work ethic gets them to the very top. I find it amazing how elite athletes find the motivation to stay so far ahead of the game for 20 odd years day in day out.
She's probably the greatest British athlete of all time, and without doubt she's earned that through her hard work.
Not sure greatest British athlete of all time. Think that is taking it a little too far. I would def agree the greatest British long distance athlete.
Definitely long-distance, struggling to think of other candidates who are challenging for best British athlete of all time. Who would you suggest?
Lots of people who achieved great things without the financial support of 'elite athlete' money's
Eric Liddell
Harold Abrahams
Roger Bannister
David Bedford
Mary Peters
David Hemery
Daley Thompson
Brendan Foster
Steve Ovett
at least three of those have better claims than Paula Radcliffe
You could easily consider Mary Rand, Jonathan Edwards & Seb Coe, too.
It's hard - impossible really - to compare different sports & different eras, but to suggest Paula is the best ever is recency bias.
Coe's world record 800 metres stood for nearly 20 years. Edwards WR was set 18 years ago & has yet to be beaten. Rand won Olympic Medals at three different disciplines.
Have to agree with this. Coe is right up there for me in the all time UK greats. No one got close to Edwards' WR and you know he is 1000/1 to have been a drug cheat because of his religious beliefs so that record is 100% clean. Until i had a look at her record i had no idea she has never won an Olympic medal of any colour. It's impossible to rank her near the all time UK greats even though she is the WR holder for the marathon.
I would go as far to say that Coe and Steve Backley put Paula only 3rd all time on the greatest ever Loughborugh University athletes thinking about it more. Backley won 4 European Championships in a row in 12 years when winning the Euros was effectively the same as winning the Worlds/Olympics in his event in that era. He also had 2 Olympic silvers and a bronze in the same period as well as being the WR holder in the toughest era ever for Javelin throwing. If Backley (2nd greatest of all time hadn't run into the greatest of all time Jan Zelezny in the same era) then you would be talking about a UK athlete who literally dominated his event for 12 years straight and won virtually every gold medal available in that period. I don't think Backley gets anywhere near the credit he deserves because his event was a field event.
Daley Thompson and Linford Christie would also definitetly be ahead of Paula imo and they are just athletes from my lifetime. I haven't considered anyone pre 1984. Steve Ovett, Colin Jackson, Mo Farah and Sally Gunnell would also be up for debate but probably on a par with Paula.
At one point Paula Radcliffe had the world record or world best time (where there wasn't an officially sanctioned world record) for every distance on the road from 8K up to the marathon (and still holds most of them now). A phenomenal record. Also, her marathon record isn't close to being beaten currently.
I think it's the opposite of 'recency bias' that means she isn't considered to the greatest British athlete by many
. That and her record in the Olympics, especially on the track.
Some of the names you mentioned are in her bracket, but others fall way short. Linford Christie didn't dominate the sprints in the same way Paula has dominated the long-distance road races. Christie's doping incidences also cross him off being a 'great' in my book. Backley was very good, but as you've pointed out, wasn't the best in his field (pun intended) when he was competing - never mind all-time.
Edwards was outstanding in the triple jump, and his world record is an exceptional one as well. Thankfully, he's also seen sense in terms of religion as well - seeing the light (or the dark), so to speak. There's an argument for putting him up near the very top. Coe and Thompson need to be thrown into the argument as well.
It's a good debate though.
I agree with this. I also probably have her as the greatest, or at least top 3, and when she was at her peak, she dominated like no other athlete I've seen and everyone talked about her in those terms. It's unfortunate that her one blip came at the Olympics, had she won a gold medal there, I think there would be no debate.
At one stage she was almost as fast as the fastest men of the time.
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lucky_scrote
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Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
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Reply #84 on:
February 02, 2015, 01:19:56 PM »
Quote from: kinboshi on January 31, 2015, 11:08:17 AM
Putin in third apparently, as the most admired person on the planet? Really? Was that a restricted vote in Russia or something? T
No but the Chinese like Putin, and that is a majority already.
Good to see that Bill Gates is in the top 10 of almost all the big countries.
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Quote from: titaniumbean on April 05, 2013, 02:23:10 PM
<3 ENSUING
Quote from: lucky_scrote on August 04, 2014, 04:57:13 AM
stato_1 said, "banoffee pie i reckon"
stato_1 said, "this is delicious"
lucky_scrote
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Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
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Reply #85 on:
February 02, 2015, 04:33:41 PM »
And for Germany:
7. Vladmir Putin
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Quote from: titaniumbean on April 05, 2013, 02:23:10 PM
<3 ENSUING
Quote from: lucky_scrote on August 04, 2014, 04:57:13 AM
stato_1 said, "banoffee pie i reckon"
stato_1 said, "this is delicious"
TightEnd
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Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
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Reply #86 on:
February 02, 2015, 07:19:50 PM »
If Charles had been a Tudor prince he’d already have been dispensed with, says grace dent
http://ind.pn/1Ak3Vfj
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MintTrav
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Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
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Reply #87 on:
February 03, 2015, 12:39:20 AM »
I don't think Radcliffe quite gets there. Seven London/New York/Chicago Marathon wins and six World Championships of various types is incredible, but there's the blot of no Olympic medals, so some of those mentioned must rank higher than her. But surely Farah has moved ahead of all the others now, excellent as they were. His Olympic and World Championships would be enough, but he has done plenty more than that - the most successful athlete from any country in the history of the European Championships, for example.
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teddybloat
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Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
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Reply #88 on:
February 03, 2015, 01:06:00 AM »
And he beat the cube...
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kinboshi
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We go again.
Re: The most admired person in Great Britain is........
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Reply #89 on:
February 03, 2015, 07:44:34 AM »
Quote from: MintTrav on February 03, 2015, 12:39:20 AM
I don't think Radcliffe quite gets there. Seven London/New York/Chicago Marathon wins and six World Championships of various types is incredible, but there's the blot of no Olympic medals, so some of those mentioned must rank higher than her. But surely Farah has moved ahead of all the others now, excellent as they were. His Olympic and World Championships would be enough, but he has done plenty more than that - the most successful athlete from any country in the history of the European Championships, for example.
But that's ignoring her achievements on the road and at cross-country. Farah is fantastic, but he benefitted from Bekele being injured and others not being quite up to the standard. He's also flopped at the marathon so far, and on the road in general, so does that discount him from being the greatest? Paula produced world best times across a whole range of distances. Had Farah done that? Does winning a particular championship that happens at a certain time every four years constitute the mark of greatness? If so, then Farah would be ahead in the greatness stakes.
Does Messi and Rolando never having particularly brilliant world cups mean they can never be considered the best footballers? I know football's a team game ago it's different, but I've often heard that a player can't truly be a great until they've shone at the top stage - the world cup. But surely that's nonsense? I'm sure Best, Giggs, Dalglish and others would disagree.
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