Impressive, or standard?

[TightEnd]

3 handed in the EPT Main

Blinds were 80,000/160,000 ante 20,000.

Button: Valentin Messina, 13,900,000 (87 big blinds)
Small blind: Dominik Panka, 4,655,000 (29 big blinds)
Big blind: Jean Montury, 8,300,000 (52 big blinds)

From the button Messina opened to 325,000,

Panka then three-bet to 850,000 with pocket tens,

only for Montury to four-bet to 2,085,000.

Messina folded and action was now back on Panka.

i believe you can see the hand from that point on at https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=942378639136201&set=vb.477783065595763&type=2&theater


great fold, or more routine than that?

[celtic]

Haven't watched it. But seems fairly standard, given the stack sizes.

[MC]

Haven't watched it. But seems fairly standard, given the stack sizes.

It would be extremely standard to get it in, not fold.

I would guess this is a sizing based tell/read on villain to ever be able to fold.

[Doobs]

http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/en/blog/tournaments/ept/2015/ept11-malta-pankas-fold---sick-or-standa-155038.shtml

The explanation brings in some interesting issues with the delayed feed. 

[TightEnd]

http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/en/blog/tournaments/ept/2015/ept11-malta-pankas-fold---sick-or-standa-155038.shtml

The explanation brings in some interesting issues with the delayed feed. 

i was going to lead onto that when the hand had been discussed

but seeing as it is mentioned

""I'd got a lot of information from my friends watching the feed about the way he plays and the way he was acting during hands as he gives off a decent amount of tells. I'm not an expert with tells but we were pretty quickly able to identify that how he touches and moves his chips depends on the strength of his hand. If he had a decent hand but he wasn't really comfortable with it then he was stroking his chips. But, if he had a good hand he was either shuffling his chips or moving them in a different way. Additionally he was raising smaller with weaker hands. If he had ace-queen or nines here he would probably have raised to around 1,600,000. So, he pretty quickly gave away the strength of his hand. Obviously he can have ace-king there but I was pretty comfortable with this fold. In other circumstances against other players, tens, three handed with 30 big blinds is a premium hand and you get it in."

no one else go "wow" at the first sentence?

live feeds/external influences aren't meant to be able to influence the live action are they?

[tikay]

http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/en/blog/tournaments/ept/2015/ept11-malta-pankas-fold---sick-or-standa-155038.shtml

The explanation brings in some interesting issues with the delayed feed. 

i was going to lead onto that when the hand had been discussed

but seeing as it is mentioned

""I'd got a lot of information from my friends watching the feed about the way he plays and the way he was acting during hands as he gives off a decent amount of tells. I'm not an expert with tells but we were pretty quickly able to identify that how he touches and moves his chips depends on the strength of his hand. If he had a decent hand but he wasn't really comfortable with it then he was stroking his chips. But, if he had a good hand he was either shuffling his chips or moving them in a different way. Additionally he was raising smaller with weaker hands. If he had ace-queen or nines here he would probably have raised to around 1,600,000. So, he pretty quickly gave away the strength of his hand. Obviously he can have ace-king there but I was pretty comfortable with this fold. In other circumstances against other players, tens, three handed with 30 big blinds is a premium hand and you get it in."

no one else go "wow" at the first sentence?

live feeds/external influences aren't meant to be able to influence the live action are they?

The next sentence too, where he states....


 but we were pretty quickly able to identify

"we" as in "me & my mates on the rail", can we assume?

If that's the case, no, I don't like that at all. Not blaming the lad, he was just using what was available to him, but it feels wrong to me.

Live streams can, potentially, be dangerous.

[Mitch]

Is this too much different than being drawn on a table with somebody, then one of your mates telling you a few reads on him?

All the information is there, its not like they've been peeking at his cards from the rail and getting information like that.

Impressive fold regardless.

[Pinchop73]

The guy didn't have a 4b/f range so not a hugely surprising fold, esp vs a 30bb stack.

The reason he didn't have a 4b/f range was because he was being dealt top 2% of hands >80% of the time

[cambridgealex]

It's a seriously impressive fold. Love all the "super standard fold" responses on Twitter from the people asking to get the freeroll password

[Oxford_HRV]

Good fold, i mean easy fold for sure if the guy is not creative and you got a whole team investigating reads for you. #teampoker

[Oxford_HRV]

honestly though high stakes just really gets to me, how much outside influence should one really have when you are at the table? I am not against giving a friend a tip but good mainly young HS regs playing by themselves is about dead now.

I remember watching pca this year and funking for pratyush buddiga off the back of a nice run, loved his style and mannerisms at the table, he got a quick interview day4/5 and was asked why he's so chilled and always on his phone and not taking it as seriously as you'd expect and his answer was along the lines of 'yeah just talking to my boys about hands I've played what they think ect...' After that I was just like gtfo, disgusts me that from the off learning and playing live you're told you cant do really do anything to influence play at your local ROFL fest, but playing the highest stakes games where you should be trusting the integrity more than anywhere else you can just basically be against a villain asking friends wug as the game runs.

Rant over. Sorry but if you disagree, I'd really like to see a valid point for #teampoker at the table.

[dino1980]

I was the guy who interviewed Dominik about this hand and wrote up what he said. Some things to consider:

1) He speaks very good English but English is not his first language.

2) The hand in question took place six hours into the cards-up coverage. The length of delay really isn't an issue with regards to this hand IMO. If you disagree with him being able to get information on hands from people watching the feed then you need to sequester people like they did at the WSOP a few years back. It didn't go very well. Because, if you disagree with players getting information from a friend watching the feed then what about information from friends on the rail who're not watching the feed? They can give him real time info on physical tells/anything else (with card info if the hand goes to showdown) if he wants to go to the rail and chat.

3) Everyone who makes the final table should have someone/does have someone watching the coverage. This is an option open to everyone. Eugene Katchalov is on record as saying ElkY was his wing man when at the EPT Deauville final table. I don't personally know anyone who's made a EPT final table, but it'd be interesting to know if Ludo, Jake, Middy had anyone on the feed. Pretty certain Middy did IIRC.

4) We have incomplete info. We don't know how much of the 'we' was Panka and how much of it was friends or even if it matters. But for arguments sake is Panka saying: "I've spotted a tell on how he handles chips, can you watch the feed and see what him stroking his chips means please?" any better than a mate saying: "Dominik we've noticed that when he strokes his chips it means..."

[cambridgealex]

@oxford. What do you suggest? Ban all communication, lock everyone in a room? It's completely unavoidable. You can't use your phones in a hand but outside of that people can talk to whoever they want.

It's just part of the modern game and it's a level playing field.

What do you think about people talking about hands on a tournament break at the bar? Is that #teampoker?

[George2Loose]

I don't see a problem with it. At the end of the day these guys are sharing information by having their hole cards revealed for the entertainment of Joe public watching streams and tv. It would just be foolish not to use the information at hand

[pleno1]

assuming player 1 is loose and player 3 is tight it seems very standard.

i initially thought it was 3b/f vs the initial guy and i was telling everybody panka HAD to be the worst wp, nf, gg