Hillsborough disaster

[Waz1892]

Waz replied saying that I had said arriving late was a same and similar bad
decision as opening the gate. Could you please explain why you came to that
conclusion ?

You also indicated that I thought Liverpool's fans behaviour was different to other
games. Again where in my post's do I say that ?
If by me saying there were a unique set of circumstances on that day , you have
misinterpreted what I meant.

Of course, I will explain why I came to such a conclusion.

your comments,

To open the gates . Bad decision.
Arriving late at the ground . Bad decision .

indicating that opening the gates was a bad decision, as was arriving late. The same "value".   For me, comparing both to a bad decision is ridiculous.  Arriving late isn't a entirely a conscious decision at all I'd argue, but much more importantly, wasn't the cause of the disaster, to suggest otherwise is shameful.

I have mis-interurpeted a lot it seems then. I can't find the exact reason for my thoughts on it.

End of the day;

I believe that no individual fan was in any way shape to blame for what happened for the reasons I gave, but more importably, every report since confirms.

You believe because some people where late, ticketless etc, they, by their behaviour even though it was normal expected behaviour at such an event, caused the deaths of 96 fans, by the simply fact they were in sheffield.

It is absurd beyond belief.

Plan better, action it better, have experienced people running the day, react better, make decisions correctly....then no matter how many turn up late, ticketless, no matter how awful fans behaviour there is no deaths.  very easy really.

[Waz1892]

If you look at all my posts on this thread I have only used the word blame once.

That was in a paragraph when I was discussing the Police cover up.

Waz says it was 100% the police's fault that 96 people lost their lives.

That is clearly wrong. The HIP report indicates that is wrong saying 41 lives
may have been saved with a better response from the Emergency Services.

The HIP report says the Police action was the direct cause.

Those at the top choose their words very carefully, far better than me but my
initial post , written after a few beers , on an emotional day , I stand by.

Been in many pubs and the topic comes up , always stayed tight lipped because
it is, as people have alluded to, "politically incorrect" to air your thought's if it goes
against the grain.

Needed to get it off my chest , the debate has gone better than I thought although
I do not know what has been deleted  

several times I mention authorities.  Splitting hairs though.  I do blame, entirely it on SYP, Duckenfield, SCC.  The emergency services response was a national disgrace.

[bookiebasher]

You have picked two bad decisions out of a few I put down.

Rather selective I would say , much like your view on events.

Would you like to answer my question

So let me try and phrase this better than I have before. If Forest had been given the
Leppings Lane End then I may have been one of those fans rushing to the ground after
a few beers , running through the tunnel , following my mates and jostling to get a good
vantage point. My actions , however innocent and accidental , must have had a bearing on
the number of people losing their lives. Or is that incorrect ?

A simple yes or no will suffice , then we can all move on.

[celtic]

If you look at all my posts on this thread I have only used the word blame once.

That was in a paragraph when I was discussing the Police cover up.

Waz says it was 100% the police's fault that 96 people lost their lives.

That is clearly wrong. The HIP report indicates that is wrong saying 41 lives
may have been saved with a better response from the Emergency Services.

The HIP report says the Police action was the direct cause.

Those at the top choose their words very carefully, far better than me but my
initial post , written after a few beers , on an emotional day , I stand by.

Been in many pubs and the topic comes up , always stayed tight lipped because
it is, as people have alluded to, "politically incorrect" to air your thought's if it goes
against the grain.

Needed to get it off my chest , the debate has gone better than I thought although
I do not know what has been deleted  

Nothing has been deleted from the thread.

[Waz1892]

You have picked two bad decisions out of a few I put down.

Rather selective I would say , much like your view on events.

Would you like to answer my question

So let me try and phrase this better than I have before. If Forest had been given the
Leppings Lane End then I may have been one of those fans rushing to the ground after
a few beers , running through the tunnel , following my mates and jostling to get a good
vantage point. My actions , however innocent and accidental , must have had a bearing on
the number of people losing their lives. Or is that incorrect ?

A simple yes or no will suffice , then we can all move on.

2 selections were what you asked me to comment as a comparison, being late and opening gate.

Yes it is incorrect. "Your actions" had no meanfully effect on what happened, before, during or after.

I will be moving on, i wish you well. But your views are insulting in my opinion and I can't stomach debating them anymore.

I don't know you, never to my knowledge met you, and Im sure you well respected on here and in the poker world and in general, so I will assume we differ greatly on this matter and otherwise you are a decent chap

[The Baron]

You have picked two bad decisions out of a few I put down.

Rather selective I would say , much like your view on events.

Would you like to answer my question

So let me try and phrase this better than I have before. If Forest had been given the
Leppings Lane End then I may have been one of those fans rushing to the ground after
a few beers , running through the tunnel , following my mates and jostling to get a good
vantage point. My actions , however innocent and accidental , must have had a bearing on
the number of people losing their lives. Or is that incorrect ?

A simple yes or no will suffice , then we can all move on.

No. Well done you. I'm not sure why we had to go through it.