5 Card Badugi/Padooki - Theory Question

[Derbylad]

So I've found myself in some very similar spots in 5 card Padooki on the final change lately.
Now obviously there are going to be a lot of dynamics into the decision for the below, however, I'm intrigued to see what people's general approach is...

Say the hero on the final change now has...

  X

We now have two distinctive routes. Pick a suit and change two cards or change one and have one shot at both a heart and spade. As stated previously this is going to be heavily dependent on our position, previous streets and how many cards our opponents are changing but I'm intrigued at everyone's general line in this.

[Longines]

No doubt it's me but don't we change either of the deuces and hope to draw one of the same suit? If we don't we still have a A24 3 card?

Love playing anything with more than two cards.

[Honeybadger]

If we don't we still have a A24 3 card?

Unlike Badugi, the way Padooki is usually played is that you do not play a 3 card incomplete hand - you always play a 4 card hand. So if you end up with then you have what a '7 flush' or if you have then you have an 'Jack flush' (flush just means a non-padooki lowball hand). Any padooki beats any non-padooki, but if no-one has a padooki then the best 4 card lowball hand ('flush') wins. I assume this is the rule for the game OP is referring to.

This means that it is probably a better idea to discard one of the deuces and draw two cards. The reason for this is that if you do not make a padooki with one of your two cards then you have a better chance of making a decent flush (as opposed to pairing up or making, say, a K flush). I would have to run some maths on this though to be sure.

That said, if you only draw one card then it looks like you have already made a padooki and are simply trying to improve on the final change. So it gives you a decent chance of bluffing the river if you miss (but less implied odds if you hit).

[Derbylad]

Apologies can't change the OP now. It is was Padooki rules.

[Honeybadger]

I have never played 5 card padooki where you have 5 cards all the way through the hand. The only variant of 5 card I have played becomes normal padooki after the first change - i.e. if you keep three cards and throw away two cards first change you only get ONE card back from the draw. Seems that 5 card played the way you describe would be a nightmare with the re-shuffling unless playing very short-handed.

What are your personal thoughts on the question you pose in your OP?

[Derbylad]

I think it just comes very game dependant at the time. If you feel you can bluff 'x' opponent by changing one and representing a made Padooki already (based on 'x' amount of card changes by opponent etc... and our position at the time) I think it's a good advantage. Previously I chose to change a deuce as well only if the opponent showed a lot of strength and I was relatively sure he had a strong range.

I'm not sure what the generic play is meant to be though or whether this game should always have a liquid strategy. Great game though haha.

[Honeybadger]

Previously I chose to change a deuce as well only if the opponent showed a lot of strength and I was relatively sure he had a strong range.

Because of the maths of the game (you are rarely getting odds to chase, especially not vs a strong pat hand) you should not usually be in the hand on the third draw if an opponent has shown a lot of strength/likely has a strong range. Unless of course you have made a big play on the second draw (usually vs a range that is likely to be weak, such as a hand that was pat from the get-go) and have been called by a pat hand that now chooses to slowplay/pot control (and is now clearly a strong hand). *

I'm not sure what the generic play is meant to be though or whether this game should always have a liquid strategy. Great game though haha.

Padooki is cool because it lends itself to GT/mathematical analysis really well, whilst at the same time allowing a lot of read/feel based adjustments. That's why I prefer it over any other game.


* [I'm talking 'normal' padooki here; in the version of 5 card padooki that you describe it is obviously more difficult to identify spots where an opponent is likely to have a weak range]

[SuuPRlim]

Argh 5 caRd padooki really ru ins s great game

[Derbylad]

Argh 5 caRd padooki really ru ins s great game

Are you ever sober nowadays?

[SuuPRlim]

Argh 5 caRd padooki really ru ins s great game

Are you ever sober nowadays?

Shame on you.

8.37am

Hungover