harman and juanda voted into the hof. no devilfish

[Doobs]

Assuming there was a British Hall of Fame and it had no age rules, who would be the first entrant?

I'd put Moorman in first.

I'd struggle on the 2nd.  Others on the short list would include Sam Trickett? Rob Yong?  Alex Millar? Devilfish?  Vicky Coren?  Maybe even Tikay?  Where do we put Matthew Ashton?  Assume we can't put in non Brit residents. 

I always thought the age barrier was farcical, but without it, Tom Dwan would have been a shoe-in for the main hall of fame, but I assume he can only ever be an also ran from now on.

[bergeroo]

On the contrary, I would like to say something adverse about John Juanda.

To call John Juanda an ambassador for poker is an absolute joke. Both Juanda and Harman were members of Team Full Tilt. Let's remember this is the company that almost went under with hundreds of millions of poker players money due to gross mismanagement before they were bailed out. Juanda was one of the major shareholders, Harman had a much smaller percentage. Since then Harman has kept a relatively low profile, Juanda has not.

For some reason Ferguson and Lederer are now pariahs in the poker world, whereas Juanda continues to jet around the poker world playing poker. How is this the case? He seems to have span a yarn that he was an affiliate, a staff member, rather than the major shareholder that he actually was.

Some American Full Tilt players still haven't been paid out 4.5 years after Black Friday. I remember playing at an EPT festival a few years ago in a small side event with an American player who used to play very high online. We looked over the room at Juanda in the high roller and he told me that he used to travel the circuit a lot more and could play all the big events, but he had a large proportion of his roll on Full Tilt and didn't know when he would get it back.

I have seen little remorse from Juanda about the way his company mismanaged player funds. I'm sure he took many healthy dividends out of the company during the years before Black Friday. I didn't see him offer to pay any of the money to players a la Tom Dwan after the site went down. Indeed he had an outstanding loan of a quarter of a million dollars that he seemed to hold on to for as long as possible.

I nominate John Juanda for the Poker Scumbag Hall of Fame

[TightEnd]

the WSOP HoF selection process needs to be changed. http://tinyurl.com/nakroan

[The Camel]

On the contrary, I would like to say something adverse about John Juanda.

To call John Juanda an ambassador for poker is an absolute joke. Both Juanda and Harman were members of Team Full Tilt. Let's remember this is the company that almost went under with hundreds of millions of poker players money due to gross mismanagement before they were bailed out. Juanda was one of the major shareholders, Harman had a much smaller percentage. Since then Harman has kept a relatively low profile, Juanda has not.

For some reason Ferguson and Lederer are now pariahs in the poker world, whereas Juanda continues to jet around the poker world playing poker. How is this the case? He seems to have span a yarn that he was an affiliate, a staff member, rather than the major shareholder that he actually was.

Some American Full Tilt players still haven't been paid out 4.5 years after Black Friday. I remember playing at an EPT festival a few years ago in a small side event with an American player who used to play very high online. We looked over the room at Juanda in the high roller and he told me that he used to travel the circuit a lot more and could play all the big events, but he had a large proportion of his roll on Full Tilt and didn't know when he would get it back.

I have seen little remorse from Juanda about the way his company mismanaged player funds. I'm sure he took many healthy dividends out of the company during the years before Black Friday. I didn't see him offer to pay any of the money to players a la Tom Dwan after the site went down. Indeed he had an outstanding loan of a quarter of a million dollars that he seemed to hold on to for as long as possible.

I nominate John Juanda for the Poker Scumbag Hall of Fame

He's Negreanu's friend, so he gets a free pass.

Negreanu doesn't like Lederer so Howie takes the blame.

[EvilPie]

This is the biggest farce the poker world has seen since Rastafish made it in to the Blonde advent calendar.

Whatever next?

[SuuPRlim]

It has been verified beyond all doubt that Juanda/Ivey/Durrr/PA/gus/Siedel etc had zero managerial influence and we're effectively just employees who were given shares in exchange for public endorsement. Even Howard and Ferguson have confirmed this, so imo they have zero reason to be held accountable for the FTP business.

[bergeroo]

It has been verified beyond all doubt that Juanda/Ivey/Durrr/PA/gus/Siedel etc had zero managerial influence and we're effectively just employees who were given shares in exchange for public endorsement. Even Howard and Ferguson have confirmed this, so imo they have zero reason to be held accountable for the FTP business.

Beyond doubt by who and where?

Juanda surely earned low-mid 8 figures in owner disbursements from Full Tilt. He offered to pay zero back after Black Friday. He was a shareholder in the company, probably the third or fourth largest. Despite his patronising claims later that he was actually an 'affiliate'

Direct Juanda quote

"I was affiliated with Full Tilt Poker and a lot of people came up to me and asked, 'Hey John do you know anything about my money?' Obviously I was not involved in the management of the company, but truly I felt really bad for these people."

Edit - slightly misread your post originally. Even if he might have had little managerial influence, he was a major shareholder in a company that went under due to mismanagement and profited handsomely from that and yet a few years later is being feted by the poker industry as one of the greatest of all time. Juanda travels the circuit and plays all the high buy in events with the money he took from being an owner in Full Tilt Poker.

[TightEnd]

Victoria Coren M. ‏@VictoriaCoren now13 seconds ago

So Devilfish has not been inducted into the poker hall of fame. That simply discredits the concept, revealing it as meaningless and stupid.

Victoria Coren M. ‏@VictoriaCoren now11 seconds ago

I don't say that because he was a friend; he was the biggest poker player in UK history. The HoF is like a map without Europe on it.

[Doobs]

http://insider.wickedchopspoker.com/246/in-other’s-words-the-rise-and-fall-of-ray-bitar/

"John you can't tell us how to run this company.  You are an owner and nothing else.  You don't run the company, so just fuck off"

A few times after that when Ray and Howard would have a drink they'd toast "fuck Juanda".

====

Sounds like just the man to blame for the downfall of Full Tilt. 

Surprised to see Vicky getting involved in all this. 

[cambridgealex]

http://insider.wickedchopspoker.com/246/in-other’s-words-the-rise-and-fall-of-ray-bitar/

"John you can't tell us how to run this company.  You are an owner and nothing else.  You don't run the company, so just fuck off"

A few times after that when Ray and Howard would have a drink they'd toast "fuck Juanda".

====

Sounds like just the man to blame for the downfall of Full Tilt. 

And what a douchebag for not paying FT customers back from his own pocket after black friday!

[TightEnd]

He will get in, I would expect either next year or the year after.

 Ivey & Moneymaker are eligible for nomination next year

tough to get in at 2 entrants per year

[TightEnd]

Jesse May ‏@ScurrilousMay Oct 26

I have great reverence for poker history and the HOF. But any institution that is not conscious of being inclusive will become exclusionary.

[TightEnd]

A Swedish take on the Poker Hall of Fame: Ken Lennaárd:

http://www.pokerlistings.com/devilfish-was-bigger-star-than-phil-hellmuth-and-phil-ivey-combined-38688

[TightEnd]

John Duthie takes issue with current Poker Hall of Fame selection process. http://ow.ly/TYbGi

[SuuPRlim]

It has been verified beyond all doubt that Juanda/Ivey/Durrr/PA/gus/Siedel etc had zero managerial influence and we're effectively just employees who were given shares in exchange for public endorsement. Even Howard and Ferguson have confirmed this, so imo they have zero reason to be held accountable for the FTP business.

Beyond doubt by who and where?

Juanda surely earned low-mid 8 figures in owner disbursements from Full Tilt. He offered to pay zero back after Black Friday. He was a shareholder in the company, probably the third or fourth largest. Despite his patronising claims later that he was actually an 'affiliate'

Direct Juanda quote

"I was affiliated with Full Tilt Poker and a lot of people came up to me and asked, 'Hey John do you know anything about my money?' Obviously I was not involved in the management of the company, but truly I felt really bad for these people."

Edit - slightly misread your post originally. Even if he might have had little managerial influence, he was a major shareholder in a company that went under due to mismanagement and profited handsomely from that and yet a few years later is being feted by the poker industry as one of the greatest of all time. Juanda travels the circuit and plays all the high buy in events with the money he took from being an owner in Full Tilt Poker.

Well by everyone involved in the company, and also by a small investigative group called the DOJ, bitar indited, Ferguson and Lederer stripped of enormous amount of assets, Juanda, Seidel and company free to go.

Would you have given back money you earned from ftp? Honestly?  No one else did, and it's worth to also remember that the vast majority of his dividends were likely earned due to legitimate company profits

What's next, should the receptionist on the front desk at enron give up her state pension?