England in South Africa

[nirvana]

Finn takes wickets and key ones at that

kind of essential that

really good again today should be fine tomorrow

Was just pulling Mr verns leg. Been watching finn since he was 13. Genuine test bowler and love seeing him do so well

[horseplayer]

Magic moen

[horseplayer]

The Indian series was not just the pitch

Skittled out for 170 on a flattening pitch is embarrassing a captain who does not want to be a captain.

Already announced a 13 man squad for both the tests

Well done lads great performance especially first morning at 50/3

[horseplayer]

South African selectors gone above amla and added two players to the squad

[muckthenuts]

Great game. Probably 0% chance of dropping Stokes for the next test i imagine, but i really feel strongly about him being a passenger in this side.

[buzzharvey22]

Great game. Probably 0% chance of dropping Stokes for the next test i imagine, but i really feel strongly about him being a passenger in this side.

I completely agree. I think Woakes is a better bowler and there's probably not much difference between their batting at the moment.

[TightEnd]

but Stokes can change a game when he comes off with the bat its dramatic, quick runs scoring heavily

he is also great with the old ball at reverse swing. saw that in the west indies and the Ashes. takes wickets in clusters too

Absolutely should not be dropped, he lengthens the batting line up a lot and provides the fifth bowler

Anderson will be back in for Woakes as long as Finn can play back to back test matches at the moment

[horseplayer]

Stokes is 24

His record for an all rounder of that age is good/very good

Mad to drop him

Really impressed with woakes looks 5mph quicker this tour would not mind unchanged myself

[muckthenuts]

but Stokes can change a game when he comes off with the bat its dramatic, quick runs scoring heavily

he is also great with the old ball at reverse swing. saw that in the west indies and the Ashes. takes wickets in clusters too

Absolutely should not be dropped, he lengthens the batting line up a lot and provides the fifth bowler

Anderson will be back in for Woakes as long as Finn can play back to back test matches at the moment

If you could choose it's much more preferable to have someone who could potentially bat out a whole day over someone who could score quick runs in a test match. Stokes will rarely score a hundred or take a 5 for. That's what changes a game much more often than 40 off 50 balls. His average of 27.72 over a good 36 innings is not number 6 standard.  

With regards to his bowling his stats speak for themselves: 46 wickets at 40.67 at test level. Even at FC level he's only averaging 30.56. Not good enough.

I mean i'm not saying he's totally worthless - but the problem is that you have Moeen with very similar limitations who is also in the side. There shouldn't be any room for both in one team. I would rather have a batting number 6 all day over Stokes and only pick him on the odd occasion a pitch warrants 4 seamers. He may become a decent ODI player, but never any more than a jack of all trades at test level.

[horseplayer]

Only England

Just hammered the number one test side and side still not good enough

Moen just the 7 wickets again just lucky again I guess

[Tal]

Only England

Just hammered the number one test side and side still not good enough

Moen just the 7 wickets again just lucky again I guess

That's another thing. We're fifth in the rankings. South Africa first but without a 100 partnership all year. Lost two greats to boot. If they lose the series, they could finish up fourth. Silly system.

[nirvana]

Tend to agree there's not a lot between Stokes and Woakes at the moment but Woakes hasn't shown himself capable of being better by a distance so good to stick with Stokes for the medium term. Occasionally games may play out such that you could swap Stokes and Bairstow in the order but it's not very broken at the moment.

Moeen - can't believe anyone still questions his ability. Front line spinner and batting where he does is just great for this team at the moment.

Obviously a bit early in his test career but when this team/squad was picked the only person I felt had a lot to prove was Hales - the other newer (re) inclusions like Taylor/Bairstow/Compton just obviously have it whatever happens to them temporarily

[fatcatstu]

Woakes is the very definition of bog standard.

Stokes has taken vital wickets at times when the team has needed a break through, can change the impetus of an innings with the bat and is probably the best fielder in the team!

Woakes has to be the one to be dropped for Anderson IMO, his bowling is not good enough for test level, he wont take wickets often enough as he doent possess great pace, and doesnt seem to swing it much unless the conditions are perfect for him.

[Tommo]

Stokes can and has been already a match winning player for England, he can take 5 for in a burst or score 80 or 90 in a session. Woakes I just can not see doing this at international level. He is a neat and tidy bowler and solid with the bat but doesn't have that extra to change a game in my opinion.

[fatcatstu]

South Africa have called up a man called Hardus Viljoen to their squad for the next test as Abbott is carrying a niggle.

What a fantastically South African name.