Horses - are stables a good thing

[mikeymike]

Horses – are your backer’s glorified loan sharks

I understand that a lot of players who want to have a crack at going pro don’t necessarily have the finances to bank roll themselves and end up joining a stable.

Are stables a good thing – maybe – maybe not

In my opinion if you join a stable – you are taking on a proper job – for this reason as a horse you should be paid for the work you undertake.

It should be irrelevant whether you win or lose over say a year period – to me your backer should be able to provide you with the following –

A monthly salary to cover you day to day living
Education and know how into how to improve your game

And more importantly not put you in make up – if you lose 10k over several months or even $100 your backer should take the losses – if they cant take the losses they shouldn’t be running a stable.

*** I pay a monthly fee to the trainer of my horses – I don’t say at the end of the month – hey we haven’t won jack shit – so you now owe me ***

[cambridgealex]

Sounds great. I'd like to apply to be a horse please.

[arbboy]

They are a loan shark if they have unlimited amounts of cash to throw at a proven winning horse who will not rob them/leave them/play pissed/play when tilted.  The reality is this very rarely happens therefore they are taking substantial risk and deserve their 'loan shark' rewards to go along with the risk.

[rfgqqabc]

All of my horses get a really good deal in my opinion. They couldn't play the games I put them in without putting themselves at excess financial risk and for that I take a fee on the winnings. No one in the business world provides capital for free. No one in the business world gives away expertise for free. Its like venture capitalism and do you have a problem with that? You spend far too much time discussing an industry you don't really understand. I wouldn't criticize you for the business model of your stable, even though I think a decent amount of people that own horses lose money, and therefore using this as a business model doesn't make much sense to me. Having said that, you seem like an intelligent bloke, so I've assumed you have made a reasonable decision. Contesting an industry standard without having an informational edge is a mistake. You do not have an informational edge here.  

[pleno1]

so much bs man.

[mikeymike]

No one in the business world gives their expertise for free

The biggest bollock statement i have ever heard.

I have and do back numerous businesses - i put my own money in and pass on knowledge that i have gained over the years - sometimes the business goes well others go bust and i lose my funds. Such is business

Venture caps work on the basis 1 will be a winner 2/3 will do okay the rest will fail - just ask warren

Also i think you will find that their are thousands of ceo and retired business people who are more than happy to give advice and help for nothing - i know quite a few.

Pleno  - seen  your last lot of post - you obviuosly like to niggle -  if your trying to be negative at least be constructive -

[arbboy]

No one in the business world gives their expertise for free

The biggest bollock statement i have ever heard.

I have and do back numerous businesses - i put my own money in and pass on knowledge that i have gained over the years - sometimes the business goes well others go bust and i lose my funds. Such is business

Venture caps work on the basis 1 will be a winner 2/3 will do okay the rest will fail - just ask warren

Also i think you will find that their are thousands of ceo and retired business people who are more than happy to give advice and help for nothing - i know quite a few.

Pleno  - seen  your last lot of post - you obviuosly like to niggle -  if your trying to be negative at least be constructive -

Very similar to staking poker players to play mtt's then.

[mikeymike]

Yes arrboy

Only big difference is that once we have lost are investment we write it off

Its the old adage only invest what you can afford to lose

[rfgqqabc]

Yes arrboy

Only big difference is that once we have lost are investment we write it off

Its the old adage only invest what you can afford to lose

Horses get dropped in makeup too. They have the option to leave poker too. Its the same.

[arbboy]

Yes arrboy

Only big difference is that once we have lost are investment we write it off

Its the old adage only invest what you can afford to lose

So do a lot of horses get written off by stakers with their 'debt/make up' fully written off by the staker and they walk away totally debt free having had the chance to win big by not risking a copper coin (a total freeroll for the horse).  Like Adam said previously if you don't really get the industry you are talking about sometimes it is best to not ask too many questions on why things happen.

[mikeymike]

So do a lot of horses get written off by stakers with their 'debt/make up' fully written off by the staker and they walk away totally debt free having had the chance to win big by not risking a copper coin (a total freeroll for the horse).  Like Adam said previously if you don't really get the industry you are talking about sometimes it is best to not ask too many questions on why things happen.
[/quote]

Interesting answer - though i only frequent the live poker scene occasionally - i do know of several players that get to play in decent tournaments through backers who just like the blokes and dont care about the money if the blokes lose or win there happy either way.

Final sentence sounds like something out of an old mafia movie.

[SuuPRlim]

I have and do back numerous businesses - i put my own money in and pass on knowledge that i have gained over the years - sometimes the business goes well others go bust and i lose my funds. Such is business

If the business makes money, do you get paid anything?

[SuuPRlim]

think of it in this way.

When you stake someone for poker, on a long term backing deal, then you say to them for this **indefinate** period of time here is the deal; I will provide finance and you will provide your time and effect, and we will split the profits of our venture 50%-50%

If someone loses for 3 months and is £15k in make-up, then it is just like a business that loses some money over a period, the next £15k that the business makes goes into the balance sheet to pay off debts etc.

You're going 50/50 on long term results not individual results or short term periods of results (if its a long term backing deal we're talking about, which im pretty sure you are)

[mikeymike]

Yes if the business is a success i reap the rewards if it fails i lose my investment.

I make a judgement call if i want to keep investing - sometimes i have cut my losses and walked away handing over my shareholding and 2 years down the road the business has become successful.

However - i dont go back and say hey the 50k i put in now your doing well i want it back - i made my judgement call and just move on to the next thing

[mikeymike]

Be good to hear some thoughts from the horses