Who's sitting out?

[TightEnd]

http://uk.pokernews.com/news/2015/11/online-poker-players-organising-strike-against-pokerstars-19937.htm

regular grinders, stars players

are you taking part in the strike?

why or why not, i am interested...

thanks

[DaveShoelace]

Can't help but think the strike will be counter-productive. If enough games are still running that are significantly softer because all the good players are striking, then that's only going to make those still playing think that it's a good thing.

Kinda like when Taxi drivers go on strike to protest Uber, and as a result A) give Uber loads of free publicity and B) force commuters to use Uber

[Doobs]

It isn't clear what the purposes of the strike are.  If it is to retain the status quo with SNE and continue to allow software to allow 24 table grinding so that people can make 100k in rakeback then I am very much against it.  If it is to ensure a level playing field with levels of rake that are beatable then I am all for it.  The stars coin thing seems an easy thing to object to as well.

Without any clarity as to the purpose of the strike then I am inclined to just do my normal thing. 

 

[buffyslayer1]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=48548299&postcount=283


there has never been a better time to play on pokerstars   

Got to agree, hopefully it will be a bit softer.

The strike is a funny thing.  I just can't simply agree with everything.  I don't think supernova elite should be saved and all the software does need binning.  But they should reduce rake elsewhere, so that the site rakes little more than it does now. 

Software and the rake increases are 2 completely different things. The strike is based on the SNE removal halfway through a 2 year program and FPP theft 25% reduction on current FPP balances.
Stars did a bit of PR spin/smokescreen by releasing some vague news on removing software at the same time. Which has led to a lot of people binding up the 2 together

I think the majority of regs actually agree with removing software, seat scripting and things like notecaddy edge are not good for the game.

[buffyslayer1]

Can't help but think the strike will be counter-productive. If enough games are still running that are significantly softer because all the good players are striking, then that's only going to make those still playing think that it's a good thing.

Kinda like when Taxi drivers go on strike to protest Uber, and as a result A) give Uber loads of free publicity and B) force commuters to use Uber

There are over 2k players striking I believe at the moment with further strikes planned in Jan when they expect to get even more players.
When you think about it, this is mainly regs who likely play 5-10 tables that's a lot of empty seats, some games only start because of regs so I think it might have a bigger impact than people think.
There used to be a way of seeing how many seats where in play on stars but I don't know how to do it, but say conservatively that would be 15k seats missing that's surely got to be a reasonable dent. Pokerscout has stars 7 day average cash game seats at about 14.5k though

Think most are also cashing out majority of their balances also which apparently is quite bad for stars (source Joe Tall on twitter).

[Doobs]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=48548299&postcount=283


there has never been a better time to play on pokerstars   

Got to agree, hopefully it will be a bit softer.

The strike is a funny thing.  I just can't simply agree with everything.  I don't think supernova elite should be saved and all the software does need binning.  But they should reduce rake elsewhere, so that the site rakes little more than it does now. 

Software and the rake increases are 2 completely different things. The strike is based on the SNE removal halfway through a 2 year program and FPP theft 25% reduction on current FPP balances.
Stars did a bit of PR spin/smokescreen by releasing some vague news on removing software at the same time. Which has led to a lot of people binding up the 2 together

I think the majority of regs actually agree with removing software, seat scripting and things like notecaddy edge are not good for the game.
[/quote
They aren't removing SNE, they are reducing the benefits.  They still get more rakeback than others, which I think is a bad thing.  I really don't understand why people would be surprised by this reduction as it was well flagged.  I wasn't the least bit surprised to see the removal of supernova benefits.   I don't think they went far enough here and everybody should pay the same rake/get the same rakeback.  If some games are unbeatable without SNE, they should reduce rake and not use it as a reason to maintain SNE. 

The stars coin thing I can agree on, and do think it should be reversed.

Aren't these 2 completely different things that strikers are using as a smokescreen to get support for their strike?   I know I feel stronger about the top one than the bottom one. 

As I read it, we are striking to maintain a status quo that I don't agree is healthy for the game, and until the strikers start making proposals like mine above then I won't be joining them. 

[NigDawG]

Can't help but think the strike will be counter-productive. If enough games are still running that are significantly softer because all the good players are striking, then that's only going to make those still playing think that it's a good thing.

Kinda like when Taxi drivers go on strike to protest Uber, and as a result A) give Uber loads of free publicity and B) force commuters to use Uber

There are over 2k players striking I believe at the moment with further strikes planned in Jan when they expect to get even more players.

i only glanced at the thread but saw an abundance of players who weren't going to play anyway.

[buffyslayer1]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=48548299&postcount=283


there has never been a better time to play on pokerstars    

Got to agree, hopefully it will be a bit softer.

The strike is a funny thing.  I just can't simply agree with everything.  I don't think supernova elite should be saved and all the software does need binning.  But they should reduce rake elsewhere, so that the site rakes little more than it does now.  

Software and the rake increases are 2 completely different things. The strike is based on the SNE removal halfway through a 2 year program and FPP theft 25% reduction on current FPP balances.
Stars did a bit of PR spin/smokescreen by releasing some vague news on removing software at the same time. Which has led to a lot of people binding up the 2 together

I think the majority of regs actually agree with removing software, seat scripting and things like notecaddy edge are not good for the game.
[/quote
They aren't removing SNE, they are reducing the benefits.  They still get more rakeback than others, which I think is a bad thing.  I really don't understand why people would be surprised by this reduction as it was well flagged.  I wasn't the least bit surprised to see the removal of supernova benefits.   I don't think they went far enough here and everybody should pay the same rake/get the same rakeback.  If some games are unbeatable without SNE, they should reduce rake and not use it as a reason to maintain SNE.  

The stars coin thing I can agree on, and do think it should be reversed.

Aren't these 2 completely different things that strikers are using as a smokescreen to get support for their strike?   I know I feel stronger about the top one than the bottom one.  

As I read it, we are striking to maintain a status quo that I don't agree is healthy for the game, and until the strikers start making proposals like mine above then I won't be joining them.  

It's being reduced massively not just for nova Elite but supernova and plat status, everyone is way worse off not just regs fwiw many 'rec's' are plat+ status also. The impact down the line on recs who are supposedly helped but this will be huge.

I agree rake should be reduced in games which can't be beat for certain and especially at the lower/micro stakes (like limit and PLO) but that's not happening at all. Effective rake is actually now increased.

The main issue and reason for the strike is it's being done halfway through the current promotion. I believe the main aim if the strike is to have the changes delayed until 2017.
I think all the people striking including the organizers agree if rake was reduced at lower levels they would have no issue at all. Its the increase in effective rake for the majority of players with no subsequent give back at the lower levels.

It wasn't well flagged at all though a vague email was sent in august about there may be changes to the program. Not what they were changing or how they were or any details. IN fact Stars was still promoting the vip program last month as it currently stands when it won't exist any more!

Read Dani stern posts about it he does a pretty good job of explaining and showing how stars have been very disingenuous with it, including e-mails with details of the supposed changes everyone was made aware of (they weren't and stars apparently didn't decide to change the VIP program until June this year)

[George2Loose]

Seems pretty pointless to me. Unless people abstain long term nothing will change

[Doobs]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=48548299&postcount=283


there has never been a better time to play on pokerstars   

Got to agree, hopefully it will be a bit softer.

The strike is a funny thing.  I just can't simply agree with everything.  I don't think supernova elite should be saved and all the software does need binning.  But they should reduce rake elsewhere, so that the site rakes little more than it does now. 

Software and the rake increases are 2 completely different things. The strike is based on the SNE removal halfway through a 2 year program and FPP theft 25% reduction on current FPP balances.
Stars did a bit of PR spin/smokescreen by releasing some vague news on removing software at the same time. Which has led to a lot of people binding up the 2 together

I think the majority of regs actually agree with removing software, seat scripting and things like notecaddy edge are not good for the game.
[/quote
They aren't removing SNE, they are reducing the benefits.  They still get more rakeback than others, which I think is a bad thing.  I really don't understand why people would be surprised by this reduction as it was well flagged.  I wasn't the least bit surprised to see the removal of supernova benefits.   I don't think they went far enough here and everybody should pay the same rake/get the same rakeback.  If some games are unbeatable without SNE, they should reduce rake and not use it as a reason to maintain SNE. 

The stars coin thing I can agree on, and do think it should be reversed.

Aren't these 2 completely different things that strikers are using as a smokescreen to get support for their strike?   I know I feel stronger about the top one than the bottom one. 

As I read it, we are striking to maintain a status quo that I don't agree is healthy for the game, and until the strikers start making proposals like mine above then I won't be joining them. 

It'd being reduced massively not just for nova Elite but supernova and plat status.

I agree rake should be reduced in games which can't be beat for certain but that's not happening

The issue is It's being done halfway through the current promotion that's the issue
Stars was still promoting the vip program last month when it won't exist anymore. If the program was obselete from 2017 I think nobody would have an issue with it.
It wasn't well flagged at all though a vague email was sent in august about there may be changes to the program. Not what they were changing or how they were.

The premise is they are putting money into recs. Reality is they are not putting a penny into the rec market it's just a money grab
 Read Dani stern posts about it he does a pretty good job of explaining and showing how stars have been very disengenious with it.

I have read Dani Stern's posts previously.  As I stated, my problem is not that there is no complaint, but there is no proposed solution.  If we don't have an aim other than maintaining 2016 benefits as they are then I don't agree with it.

I disagree about the timeline on the flagging that supernova benefits could be reduced.  I was supernova until June this year.  And part of the reason I stopped then was that I thought it was more likely than not that I would be getting reduced benefits in 2017.  So that means I must have read something by the end of May that made me think that way.  

I fully accept that Stars have been pretty flakey with their reasoning.  They should be reducing the rake by 30% or giving everybody 20 or 30% rakeback to justify their statements about benefitting recs.

[TightEnd]

Patrick wrote about the strike in his latest entry on BITB for those who have not seen it

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=49575.msg2101120;boardseen#new

[Whollyflush]

Seems pretty pointless to me. Unless people abstain long term nothing will change

This may be true, but when rake is hiked and you keep getting backed into a corner you've got to draw a line in the sand somewhere. If its fruitless, we all know that bit sooner and can make contingency plans. If nothing is done the result is inevitable anyway. At this point there is no harm in trying something that might leverage some sort of communication never mind negotiation.

Make no mistake Mtt'ers your games will be significantly affected with the influx of cash and sng regs turning to Mtt's next yr.

[titaniumbean]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=48548299&postcount=283


there has never been a better time to play on pokerstars    

Got to agree, hopefully it will be a bit softer.

The strike is a funny thing.  I just can't simply agree with everything.  I don't think supernova elite should be saved and all the software does need binning.  But they should reduce rake elsewhere, so that the site rakes little more than it does now.  

imo the strike should be nothing to do with high volume player benefits reducing. it's entirely about the transition from Isais to Amaya. Amaya introducing these changes at the last minute affecting people who they've advertised a product to as late as possible. With such an aggressively deceitful and insulting approach.

Reducing the VPP value out of the blue is a complete money grab because of the >$100 million dollar 'liability' they have there. That's just stealing.


I doubt any winning player will argue the SNE is good for the game, nor that SE and the current VIP rewards are the best thing for the poker economy. But advertising it as this pathetic 'fighting for the 98%' change when only chromestar sees an increase, and that increase is absolutely negligible, whilst at the same time having rake that is so high that many game formats are truly unbeatable is absolutely disgusting. Spin and Gos with million dollar jackpots, 3 person hypers with slot machine start ups really? that's progress towards a sustainable or healthy economy (the stated reasons to remove the higher vip levels)?!?!?!?

Since taking over Amaya has managed to absolutely destroy the credibility of what Isai created, the support has taken a huge nosedive (not hard because of just how high the bar was set) but still shocking the efficiency with which this reduction in service levels has been achieved.

In all my years of playing on Stars, the only times the software has even managed to have any kind of real glitches, has been when the whole worldwide internet has had problems due to worldwide routing issues or when they run some insane promotion which meant a tournament had the field size of 4x the average number of players on the site (even then it just lagged rather then every single player losing connection for upwards of 15-20 minutes, the concept of it dieing every hour on the half hour because of inept backend technical work is mindboggling, they must have worked so hard to destroy all the work done previously). I cannot even recall a time when the whole site itself went down, the few times there were problems they were so quick to both be in contact with players and be totally open about if the problem had been caused by them.

Stars since Amaya has taken over CONSTANTLY crashes and lags like you are playing on some joke site like 888. These apparently are worldwide internet routing problems (they copy pasted the site wide messages stars had pushed once or twice, and just spam them now well after the problems have been happening because the poor lad left in the support department has to handle it on his own). Previously stars would auto reimburse you for problems you had, now they have moved to the classic douschebag site model of asking for you to provide countless details in a report for them to verify then tell you the problem wasn't at their end, or for them to give you 3fpps which will soon be reduced in value anyway.  People need to understand just how hard they must have worked to degrade the software stability so quickly to the level they have, combine that with the support department service reductions and they have some fucking sicko management guy whose sole purpose is to destroy the product to save money with no concern for the effects. Isn't it lucky that there is ABSOLUTELY NO site that can compete with them and take the bulk of their traffic by offering a product even 1/10th as good as that which they have degraded Isais' brain child to. Does anyone really believe they still have the funds and will to seek out cheating or even attempt to protect the integrity of the games?!?


The whole "omg removing software is so great you selfish regs" is a pathetic political bit of scheming, they aren't even removing the bulk of the software, they are removing the really invasive and organic software that updates mid hand and provides new levels of on the fly analysis/information filtering. That is clearly good, but it's being used again as a disgusting Alistair Campbell style spin and so many people who should be able to see through it are falling for it.


Given how self centred the whole concept of the industry is to get any number of regs to strike together shows just how hard they are intentionally fucking the player in a push for short term profits from this vulture prick Baazov to piss them off that much.

The problems are - the stealing from players via fpps, the mis-advertising of long term vip benefits which they remove at the last minute, the disgusting patronising rude and insulting way they communicated these problems with press releases full of pure lies and the absolutely awful way in which they have destroyed the core values of the product (network stability, player support and site integrity).

Who truly thinks player balances will even still be kept separate or another FTP cant happen with this absolute turd in charge?!?

Imo the strike is good, in the sense it shows that there are alot of players really actually fucked off, even enough to pass up on better games for 3 days, however removal of players balances would be such a better way to show them that they are out of line.  There will still be a huge amount of players who have absolutely no idea of who Dani Stern/2+2 is or that this is happening and these players ARE ALSO losing out because of the changes.

The 2% are going to be fine because they are winning players, they will adapt, the 98% who are being touted as those benefiting are also being fucked whilst being told they are lucky for that...guess who wins.... Amaya and Baazov...... aka the house wins.

Even if it is fair to say that we were spoilt by Isai, the way in which Amaya is treating the whole player base is absolutely scandalous.

[DaveShoelace]

http://www.onlinepokerreport.com/18857/how-online-poker-resembles-gym-industry/

[teddybloat]

Strikes have worked before under amaya.

They increased the rake in husngs and the regs simply moved all their battling ( regs have to play regs in hypers, there is a tremendous amount of battling ) off stars and a couple of sites lowered their husng rake to plug the gap and take all that lucrative high stakes low edge rake churn.

Stars first introduced huge rake back offers triggered on your 50th game v a player in a month, and then relented and put the rake back to its previous low level.

Husng regs are organised though.

They are in divisions and have rules and can also influence non members by refusing entry for 6 months to would be members who took.lobbies during the strike..