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Author Topic: Tennis Equality  (Read 3170 times)
BigAdz
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« on: March 21, 2016, 09:40:27 AM »

So here we go again.

Following Ray Moores comments that Women ride on the coat tails of the mens game, and Novac agreeing men should be paid more, I just endured the Women on the Breakfast TV, moaning that its totally wrong etc.

Personally, I agree with Djokovic.

If Men are required to play a max of 5 sets, vs the Womens 3 sets, is that not actually unfair that Women expect to be paid pro rata more money?

If Men bring in more paying supporters, ditto?

If Men played Women, they would crush, so surely deserve more?

Thoughts or previous thread?!
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2016, 09:51:32 AM »

I used to agree with Novak but the last 10 years or so I've found myself enjoying the WTA more than the men's game apart from when it is a genuine big gun showdown.

As for the 3 v 5 set debate, I think the men get loads of free points on serve, whereas the women have to work harder for every point and hit more balls in general.  I think it's one of the view sports where the women are genuine box office to as big a degree as the men so I think equal prize money is fair.
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hector62
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2016, 10:51:04 AM »

If the viewing figures are correct then I think men should be paid more. But watching Isner and Raonic firing down ace after ace when they play on grass is just dull and I wouldn't watch it. Get rid of 5 set matches for men would be a step towards equality.

Oh and fine anyone who grunts when they hit the ball.
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rinswun
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2016, 11:01:23 AM »

I actually wrote my dissertation about the subject of sportswomen's pay - with a focus on women's tennis. Suffice to say my findings that women shouldn't be paid equally to the men didn't go down well with my feminist tutor.
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Jon MW
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2016, 11:30:42 AM »

If the viewing figures are correct then I think men should be paid more. But watching Isner and Raonic firing down ace after ace when they play on grass is just dull and I wouldn't watch it. Get rid of 5 set matches for men would be a step towards equality.

Oh and fine anyone who grunts when they hit the ball.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the women to go up to 5 sets rather than the men go down to 3?

The viewing figures are irrelevant - and also at least in part down to how it's marketed - if they both do the same job (5 set matches) then they should get the same pay. If the tournament organisers can't market the woman's game as well, or don't do it as intensively at least, then it's their problem to fix.
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Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield

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AndrewT
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2016, 12:10:02 PM »

If you're a woman, and you want to earn a higher rate of pay for the same work as a man, then your options are model, hooker, porn star or a tennis player for 8 weeks of the year. Everything else, men get paid more than women.

If, as a man, you want to eliminate one of these disparities then I'd suggest there are probably bigger battles you could choose to fight.
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Rod Paradise
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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2016, 12:41:07 PM »

I do find it ironic that the top earners at Wimbledon are the women players as they can manage the doubles tournaments as well.
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2016, 12:48:24 PM »

If the viewing figures are correct then I think men should be paid more. But watching Isner and Raonic firing down ace after ace when they play on grass is just dull and I wouldn't watch it. Get rid of 5 set matches for men would be a step towards equality.

Oh and fine anyone who grunts when they hit the ball.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the women to go up to 5 sets rather than the men go down to 3?

The viewing figures are irrelevant - and also at least in part down to how it's marketed - if they both do the same job (5 set matches) then they should get the same pay. If the tournament organisers can't market the woman's game as well, or don't do it as intensively at least, then it's their problem to fix.

Surely it's not irrelevant?  Viewing figures/ticket sales are what drives revenue?
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Jon MW
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2016, 01:24:14 PM »

If the viewing figures are correct then I think men should be paid more. But watching Isner and Raonic firing down ace after ace when they play on grass is just dull and I wouldn't watch it. Get rid of 5 set matches for men would be a step towards equality.

Oh and fine anyone who grunts when they hit the ball.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the women to go up to 5 sets rather than the men go down to 3?

The viewing figures are irrelevant - and also at least in part down to how it's marketed - if they both do the same job (5 set matches) then they should get the same pay. If the tournament organisers can't market the woman's game as well, or don't do it as intensively at least, then it's their problem to fix.

Surely it's not irrelevant?  Viewing figures/ticket sales are what drives revenue?

If pay is a function of cost/benefit analysis - then it's relevant.

But if that were the case then the cost of hiring men and women equally would result in a higher cost for women as they are more likely to take longer off for maternity pay and family 'issues' - i.e. it "should" result in lower pay for women. In practice this may be what happens but it illustrates the point that from an equality point of view it should be about whether men and women are doing the same job - not about how much they cost or how much revenue they make.
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2016, 01:39:44 PM »

If the viewing figures are correct then I think men should be paid more. But watching Isner and Raonic firing down ace after ace when they play on grass is just dull and I wouldn't watch it. Get rid of 5 set matches for men would be a step towards equality.

Oh and fine anyone who grunts when they hit the ball.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the women to go up to 5 sets rather than the men go down to 3?

The viewing figures are irrelevant - and also at least in part down to how it's marketed - if they both do the same job (5 set matches) then they should get the same pay. If the tournament organisers can't market the woman's game as well, or don't do it as intensively at least, then it's their problem to fix.

Surely it's not irrelevant?  Viewing figures/ticket sales are what drives revenue?

If pay is a function of cost/benefit analysis - then it's relevant.

But if that were the case then the cost of hiring men and women equally would result in a higher cost for women as they are more likely to take longer off for maternity pay and family 'issues' - i.e. it "should" result in lower pay for women. In practice this may be what happens but it illustrates the point that from an equality point of view it should be about whether men and women are doing the same job - not about how much they cost or how much revenue they make.

To be devils advocate of if ATP and WTA rights get sold seperately they are not doing then same job?  Otherwise you can argue women footballers should be on 300k a week?
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MintTrav
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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2016, 10:47:15 AM »

A millionaire who spends all his time doing his hobby has complained he isn't rich enough. Novak Djokovic, from Serbia, travels around the world playing tennis with his friends at some of the most glamorous locations. He can earn several million pounds a year playing tennis but is unhappy that girl millionaires get the same amount of money for doing their hobby too. He said: "I play tennis really hard and everybody knows boys are better than girls at sports. Can you believe that when I made £1m for winning Wimbledon the girl who also won got the same?" But Mr Djokovic said he doesn't want the girl tennis players to earn any less. "I want more," he said, "much more."

http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=98458
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fatcatstu
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2016, 10:57:16 AM »

It's not equality,is it? They effectively want to get paid more than the men. Surely it just comes down to if they play the same amount of sets, they get paid the same amount of money?
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Pinchop73
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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2016, 11:20:43 AM »

I think there should be true equality. Let's amalgamate the genders to allow the women to show why they deserve to be paid equally.
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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2016, 11:26:50 AM »

The ATP and WTA are separate entities away from the grand slams. They have different events and in general the ATP players are paid more for playing the same amount (3 sets)as the women, even at dual events like Indian Wells last week the women's final was on bt sport and the men's on sky.

In an hypothetical example how far do you have to go down the men's rankings that you make Serena Williams a favourite in a 3 set match? 100,200, 1000, 5000....??
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Jon MW
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2016, 11:33:44 AM »

It's not equality,is it? They effectively want to get paid more than the men. Surely it just comes down to if they play the same amount of sets, they get paid the same amount of money?

This is the main thing - I don't see any reason why women can't just go up to 5 sets.

There was an interesting article on the BBC which addressed the revenue/viewers question - it pointed out that in practice it's not the men's game that attracts more viewers - it's specific men. The revenue argument for women earning less should mean that the less famous male tennis players should get a lower prize if they happened to beat a Djokovic or Nadal.

As AndrewT pointed out - it's really not the most important of feminist issues around, but I would have thought that just changing everything to 5 sets would be a pretty simple start.
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Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield

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