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Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
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Topic: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated (Read 7029 times)
DaveShoelace
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Posts: 9165
Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #15 on:
April 05, 2016, 06:11:10 PM »
Quote from: Jon MW on April 05, 2016, 05:17:26 PM
Quote from: PokerBroker on April 05, 2016, 05:11:23 PM
Cameron was modest enough to bring up his Mother recently when heckling Corbyn, so one would assume he held her in great esteem and no doubt his old fella.
wasn't he responding to a heckle about his mother?
He was, a Labour MP shouted 'ask your Mother' at something he was asking a rhetorical question about.
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EvilPie
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Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #16 on:
April 05, 2016, 06:21:14 PM »
Quote from: Doobs on April 05, 2016, 01:22:33 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on April 04, 2016, 11:01:05 PM
That some of his inherited wealth comes from funds from a company set up in Panama by his dad, blairmore holdings. His dad died in 2010.
It is a load of nonsense.
It is like the idiocy in the Daily Mail over Milliband's father hating Britain
. You can't choose your parents and you have no control as to how they lead their lives. The people making news of this have put themselves on a par with the Daily Mail.
If Cameron himself had set up a company in Panama he should be hounded out of office.
Surely by focusing on Cameron, we give the real villians in the story a free pass?
FWIW he inherited £300,000 from his father. It was highlighted when the original story came out a few years ago.
It bears no similarity to that whatsoever. The father hating Britain thing has nothing to do with Milliband Jnr. That's just one persons opinion and that persons child can have an entirely different opinion. The other is a family using tax loopholes to avoid IHT. The chances that Cameron didn't know what his father was doing are pretty much zero so he's guilty by association. Fortunately he's not guilty of any crime because it's all perfectly legal.
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Motivational speeches at their best:
"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
doubleup
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Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #17 on:
April 05, 2016, 06:31:21 PM »
Iceland's leader is first head to roll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35966412
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DaveShoelace
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Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #18 on:
April 05, 2016, 06:36:23 PM »
Quote from: EvilPie on April 05, 2016, 06:21:14 PM
Quote from: Doobs on April 05, 2016, 01:22:33 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on April 04, 2016, 11:01:05 PM
That some of his inherited wealth comes from funds from a company set up in Panama by his dad, blairmore holdings. His dad died in 2010.
It is a load of nonsense.
It is like the idiocy in the Daily Mail over Milliband's father hating Britain
. You can't choose your parents and you have no control as to how they lead their lives. The people making news of this have put themselves on a par with the Daily Mail.
If Cameron himself had set up a company in Panama he should be hounded out of office.
Surely by focusing on Cameron, we give the real villians in the story a free pass?
FWIW he inherited £300,000 from his father. It was highlighted when the original story came out a few years ago.
It bears no similarity to that whatsoever. The father hating Britain thing has nothing to do with Milliband Jnr. That's just one persons opinion and that persons child can have an entirely different opinion. The other is a family using tax loopholes to avoid IHT. The chances that Cameron didn't know what his father was doing are pretty much zero so he's guilty by association. Fortunately he's not guilty of any crime because it's all perfectly legal.
Not entirely sure I agree, money is one of the few things that people who are close often don't talk about. I have no idea what any of my mates earn and I didn't have a clue what my own parent's financial situation was until my Father passed away. It is a topic people are shy about.
Having said that, if you are going to be PM, does seem like the sort of thing you should do due diligence on.
That and pigs heads.
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EvilPie
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Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #19 on:
April 05, 2016, 06:39:03 PM »
Quote from: doubleup on April 05, 2016, 06:31:21 PM
Iceland's leader is first head to roll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35966412
Wow that's awesome. I saw something earlier about 8000 protesters in Reykjavik demanding his resignation but it said he wasn't quitting.
Must be some people really worrying right now.
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Motivational speeches at their best:
"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
EvilPie
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Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #20 on:
April 05, 2016, 06:42:43 PM »
Quote from: DaveShoelace on April 05, 2016, 06:36:23 PM
Quote from: EvilPie on April 05, 2016, 06:21:14 PM
Quote from: Doobs on April 05, 2016, 01:22:33 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on April 04, 2016, 11:01:05 PM
That some of his inherited wealth comes from funds from a company set up in Panama by his dad, blairmore holdings. His dad died in 2010.
It is a load of nonsense.
It is like the idiocy in the Daily Mail over Milliband's father hating Britain
. You can't choose your parents and you have no control as to how they lead their lives. The people making news of this have put themselves on a par with the Daily Mail.
If Cameron himself had set up a company in Panama he should be hounded out of office.
Surely by focusing on Cameron, we give the real villians in the story a free pass?
FWIW he inherited £300,000 from his father. It was highlighted when the original story came out a few years ago.
It bears no similarity to that whatsoever. The father hating Britain thing has nothing to do with Milliband Jnr. That's just one persons opinion and that persons child can have an entirely different opinion. The other is a family using tax loopholes to avoid IHT. The chances that Cameron didn't know what his father was doing are pretty much zero so he's guilty by association. Fortunately he's not guilty of any crime because it's all perfectly legal.
Not entirely sure I agree, money is one of the few things that people who are close often don't talk about. I have no idea what any of my mates earn and I didn't have a clue what my own parent's financial situation was until my Father passed away. It is a topic people are shy about.
Having said that, if you are going to be PM, does seem like the sort of thing you should do due diligence on.
That and pigs heads.
Think it probably depends on how much money the family has got. If there's enough that losing half of it to the tax man through IHT becomes a problem then there's more chance of having to discuss it and do some creative planning.
Obviously it can never be proved in the Cameron family's case so it's all his Dads fault. How convenient.
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Motivational speeches at their best:
"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
Doobs
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Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #21 on:
April 05, 2016, 06:43:45 PM »
Quote from: EvilPie on April 05, 2016, 06:21:14 PM
Quote from: Doobs on April 05, 2016, 01:22:33 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on April 04, 2016, 11:01:05 PM
That some of his inherited wealth comes from funds from a company set up in Panama by his dad, blairmore holdings. His dad died in 2010.
It is a load of nonsense.
It is like the idiocy in the Daily Mail over Milliband's father hating Britain
. You can't choose your parents and you have no control as to how they lead their lives. The people making news of this have put themselves on a par with the Daily Mail.
If Cameron himself had set up a company in Panama he should be hounded out of office.
Surely by focusing on Cameron, we give the real villians in the story a free pass?
FWIW he inherited £300,000 from his father. It was highlighted when the original story came out a few years ago.
It bears no similarity to that whatsoever. The father hating Britain thing has nothing to do with Milliband Jnr. That's just one persons opinion and that persons child can have an entirely different opinion. The other is a family using tax loopholes to avoid IHT. The chances that Cameron didn't know what his father was doing are pretty much zero so he's guilty by association. Fortunately he's not guilty of any crime because it's all perfectly legal.
How can you be sure. I had absolutely no idea of how my father ran his affairs before he got dementia and neither did his wife. I had no idea what was in his will until he died. I think all these assumptions of guilt sit uneasily with me.
Even if he knew everything, I still don't see how he has responsibility for it. I may be able to talk to my mother, I may be able to tell her I think what she does is wrong on occasion, but I have no powers whatsoever to do anything about it. She may be intending to leave all her wealth to the BNP for all I know.
Sure the Cameron family may be different to mine, but I still think it is a leap to make to assume that he both knew about it and that he condoned it. Given we don't actually know the exact detail, then I am not sure we can conclude it was legal either.
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DungBeetle
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Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #22 on:
April 05, 2016, 06:56:37 PM »
Quote from: neeko on April 05, 2016, 05:55:55 PM
Which of these would you consider tax avoidance?
1. Having a pension
2. Having an ISA
3. BT Plc making a profit but not giving a dividend (of shares you own) (so you are not paying tax this year)
4. A private co, being profitable but not paying shareholders dividends
5. An offshore trust not paying out an income but making a profit (don't pay any tax)
6. An offshore trust not paying out an income, making a profit then giving a loan to its beneficiaries of this amount (tax free)
7. An offshore trust paying beneficiaries an income (of say £20k each) but they don't pay tax on it
I would say only 3 are.
That's the issue though isn't it - different people will have different opinions. We need to go by the law, not by moral judgement. If the law is wrong then we should elect politicians to change it.
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DungBeetle
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Posts: 4147
Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #23 on:
April 05, 2016, 06:59:54 PM »
Quote from: EvilPie on April 05, 2016, 06:21:14 PM
Quote from: Doobs on April 05, 2016, 01:22:33 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on April 04, 2016, 11:01:05 PM
That some of his inherited wealth comes from funds from a company set up in Panama by his dad, blairmore holdings. His dad died in 2010.
It is a load of nonsense.
It is like the idiocy in the Daily Mail over Milliband's father hating Britain
. You can't choose your parents and you have no control as to how they lead their lives. The people making news of this have put themselves on a par with the Daily Mail.
If Cameron himself had set up a company in Panama he should be hounded out of office.
Surely by focusing on Cameron, we give the real villians in the story a free pass?
FWIW he inherited £300,000 from his father. It was highlighted when the original story came out a few years ago.
It bears no similarity to that whatsoever. The father hating Britain thing has nothing to do with Milliband Jnr. That's just one persons opinion and that persons child can have an entirely different opinion. The other is a family using tax loopholes to avoid IHT. The chances that Cameron didn't know what his father was doing are pretty much zero so he's guilty by association. Fortunately he's not guilty of any crime because it's all perfectly legal.
The Milibands also did some Inheritance Tax planning to reduce Ed's tax liability on the family home. The argument at the time (rightly) was Miliband had little control over the tax affairs of his father, so the same argument applies to Cameron.
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EvilPie
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Posts: 14241
Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #24 on:
April 05, 2016, 07:58:01 PM »
So if my parents gift £100k each to me and my sister now would people class that as IHT planning or tax avoidance? The reason for doing it would be that they hope to live at least another 7 years at which point IHT doesn't apply to gifts.
Bringing inheritance forward must surely be very common in families to avoid paying the otherwise inevitable IHT.
The question is who is the one avoiding the tax? It's the children that would have had to pay the tax so surely it's them that have avoided it. However it's the parents money when it's gifted so entirely their decision and you can't blame the kids. What a superb win all round.
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Motivational speeches at their best:
"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
redsimon
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Posts: 8631
Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #25 on:
April 05, 2016, 08:18:41 PM »
Quote from: EvilPie on April 05, 2016, 07:58:01 PM
So if my parents gift £100k each to me and my sister now would people class that as IHT planning or tax avoidance? The reason for doing it would be that they hope to live at least another 7 years at which point IHT doesn't apply to gifts.
Bringing inheritance forward must surely be very common in families to avoid paying the otherwise inevitable IHT.
The question is who is the one avoiding the tax? It's the children that would have had to pay the tax so surely it's them that have avoided it. However it's the parents money when it's gifted so entirely their decision and you can't blame the kids. What a superb win all round.
It's both. Tax avoidance isn't illegal
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Success has many parents but failure is an orphan
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AndrewT
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Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #26 on:
April 05, 2016, 08:30:29 PM »
Quote from: doubleup on April 05, 2016, 06:31:21 PM
Iceland's leader is first head to roll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35966412
Something something arctic roll.
There's a pun in there somewhere, I'm sure of it.
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DungBeetle
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Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #27 on:
April 05, 2016, 09:59:59 PM »
Quote from: EvilPie on April 05, 2016, 07:58:01 PM
So if my parents gift £100k each to me and my sister now would people class that as IHT planning or tax avoidance? The reason for doing it would be that they hope to live at least another 7 years at which point IHT doesn't apply to gifts.
Bringing inheritance forward must surely be very common in families to avoid paying the otherwise inevitable IHT.
The question is who is the one avoiding the tax? It's the children that would have had to pay the tax so surely it's them that have avoided it. However it's the parents money when it's gifted so entirely their decision and you can't blame the kids. What a superb win all round.
I'm in full support for whatever you want to do. We have laws so if you don't break them it is none of my business. What I don't agree with is picking and choosing who to have issue with based on a subjective personal scale.
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TightEnd
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Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #28 on:
April 06, 2016, 10:32:15 AM »
this is a good long form read on the background, the details and the implications on why it matters
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/why-you-should-care-about-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca
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Lucky
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Re: Huge data leak from Panama law firm - many politicians implicated
«
Reply #29 on:
April 06, 2016, 02:11:47 PM »
I couldn't help but smile at the irony in the Cameron Trust Fund name, Blairmore.
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